Find Living Relatives

another bit of info because I was puzzled about the Ancestry user's reference to CWGC records in notes to the 1901 census, since Harry survived the war

what has happened is that the change of surname for Ernest 'Qie' to 'Eyre', with the explanation that applies only to him, has been applied to the other family members

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3048937/EYRE,%20ERNEST%20EDGAR

... and it is a little interesting in that it says

'(Served as WEAVER). Son of Alice Eyre, of 158, Forster St., Radford, Nottingham.'

Ernest was 4 in the 1891 census so I'd say this is his birth

Births Jun 1887
Eyre Ernest Edgar Nottingham 7b 332

(he was 27 at death in August 1914)

So why did he serve as Weaver ...

could there have been a Michael Weaver? It's a bit of an Irish name, and I don't see one in Nottinghamshire.


4 people do have Ernest in their tree here, one of whom is a person who added notes to the 1901 household at Ancestry ... does none of them know anything of the Harry in that family?


Still no luck with a birth of brother Edward who was 9 in 1891 ... or as Edmund or Edwin, since the Ed* names were commonly muddled even by their owners


I would definitely try to contact the two people at Ancestry who have added to the 1901 census (if they aren't people you have already contacted through this site)

I am of the same opinion as you so I will see what Wendy can find. Thank you for your help. :-)

all the 1911 does, unfortunately, is confirm that he consistently (except for naval record!) gave his age as = dob 1892, and Notts as place of birth

I really do think he was the son of John and Alice ... or at least Alice

I would get the 1892 birth certificate to see what parents' names are given

and yes, for Wendy, maybe see what other Eyre records at St Anne there might be

Wow thank you so much for finding him. Now to confirm his parents.
I know all about Harry's wife Winifred, she took her father's name of World.

I'm going to ask Wendy for some help re Nottingham archives?

Sue

I found him in 1911


Name: Harry Eye
Age in 1911: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Notts, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Portsmouth
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address:
Royal Sailors Rest, 74 -174 Commercial Road, Buckingham Street, And Chardos Street
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Stoker
Registration district: Portsmouth


the image does say 'Eye' but it's an obvious error by whoever prepared the list of residents


also just for info in case you don't have Winifred in 1901

Name: Winifred W Fletcher
Age: 7/12
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: William World
Birth Place: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Portsmouth

William World 38 - head, (something) inspector
Ada Mary Wheeler 27 - boarder
Winifred W Fletcher 7/12 - daughter


Winifred's name does seem to say Fletcher, but I would think this is a misreading of 'Wheeler' from the household schedule completed by William

Deaths Dec 1909
WORLD William 46 Portsmouth 2b 283

Susan, go to Wendy's thread about Nottingham records and ask her to have a look for you in case you aren't able to get to the archives; Wendy is enormously helpful (she just gave me a scan of my grx4 grandparents' 1790 marriage from parish records).

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1266434

and of course keep her in mind in case you manage to get back farther :-)

I do wonder whether he is the Harry son of John and Alice, but they were perhaps estranged shortly after his birth and he had a stepfather Michael ... this kind of thing on a marriage certificate, a fabricated father made up of a given name from one person and a surname from another (made to match the person's own surname) is not uncommon at all, for various reasons.

this would be his vessel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Neptune_%281909%29

commissioned 11 January 1911
'She was flagship of the Home Fleet from May 1911 until May 1912'

I can't find any census record for any crew of that ship

but at least we can probably assume it was not at sea at the time of the 1911 census?



edit

more specifically

http://dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/H.M.S._Neptune_%281909%29

On 3 January, 1911, Captain Charles Martin-de-Bartolomé was appointed to H.M.S. Victory for command of Neptune, which he commissioned at Portsmouth on 11 January, with the nucleus crew of Illustrious forming part of the complement. She departed Portsmouth for the Mediterranean on trials on 21 January. She tested her director on 11 March off Tetuoan, before **returning to Portsmouth on 20 March.**

the census was taken on 2 April 2011

As you say Harry is not a walk in the park. At the time of the 1911 census he was on HMS Neptune. I cannot trace him on any 1911 census.
His naval record shows that he was born in St Anne's Nottingham.
His death was registered by his wife and as you say this would mean his birth was in 1892. Looking at his marriage certificate in 1919 he also reports to be 26 which would also indicate 1892 birth year

What seems ironic is the occupation of his father as a painter on his marriage certificate and what has been found about John in the 1911 census .
I was in touch with the genes reunited members of John and Alice, but they were un aware of any Michael.

I am going to Nottingham in a few weeks so I will visit the archive centre there to see if there are any parish records of baptism.

If you have any other tips on where I could look when in Nottingham that would be appreciated. The church in the St Anne's district has now been demolished.

Thank you for your help.

one for the pot, 1891 census
in Clay Cross, Derbyshire (Chesterfield reg dist)

Frederick Eyre abt 1825 Swanwick, Derbyshire, England Head
Rebbcca Eyre abt 1864 North Wingfield, Derbyshire, England Daughter
Samuel Eyre abt 1871 North Wingfield, Derbyshire, England Son
Gertrude Eyre abt 1873 North Wingfield, Derbyshire, England Daughter
William Eyre abt 1876 North Wingfield, Derbyshire, England Son
Sarah Brailsford abt 1881 Hucknall; Huthwaite, Nottinghamshire, England Granddaughter
Herbert Eyre abt 1886 North Wingfield, Derbyshire, England Grandson
> Harry Eyre abt 1890 North Wingfield, Derbyshire, England Grandson

the children of Frederick are all shown as unmarried, so whose child he is can't be determined from that

Elizabeth Eyre married Thomas Brailsford 1879 accounting for grdaughter Sarah

the Harry in that 1891 household could be the child of an unmarried Eyre daughter, whose father's name was Michael

... but he is in the household of married mother Rebecca Walker in 1911, a miner

so ruled out

just an example though of the kind of situation that might exist :-)

Hi Susan, yes Harry is not a walk in the genealogy park :-)

First, can you confirm that this is his death?

Name: Harry Eyre
Birth Date: 1892
Date of Registration: Dec 1925
Age at Death: 33
Registration district: Alverstoke
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 746

and we all do keep in mind that ages reported on death certificates are only as good as the knowledge of the person doing the reporting!

are you in touch with the Genes Reunited members who have Harry 1892 and/or Alice Winfield in their trees?

Can you say where the birthdate of 'Sept 1890' comes from? ... oh sorry, it's his naval records

what date did he enter the navy? in case, as you say, he made himself older

(my grandfather made himself 2 years older, to join the military when he was in fact only 15, a few years before WWI)

I am guessing that when you say he was born in Nottingham and 'Left the area 1910 to join the Navy in Portsmouth' that is all from his naval records, that he stated born in Nottingham with the 1890 birth date

I might also wonder whether 'Nottingham' was a generalisation ... people often named a larger centre as their birth place once they had left their county ... possibly he was born in an outlying registration district

have you found him in the 1911 census? if he was in the navy, he should appear

if not, do his naval records say where he was in that year? (in case you haven't found him in the census and his is possibly too badly mistranscribed to find e.g.)

Joonie! I have been researching Harry Eyre born Sept 1890 for a long time. It was my original thought that Alice and John were his parents until I got his marriage certificate which showed his father as Michael and occupation painter. His navy records show 1890 as date of birth, although I realise he could have changed this to become a little older.

I don't understand why his Father is shown as Michael on his marriage certificate .

I then thought that Alice and John did not fit the research although I had not removed them from my tree. I was researching on another site. I have again returned to my research after a long break and as you say I am trying to trace Harry's siblings or if anyone had any further information.

I am not fully convinced that Alice and John are his parents.

Harry's first two children were named directly for himself and his wife
his third child was Ernest

I wonder whether this 1891 household was a blended family
especially given the order in which they are listed
and note youngest child Ernest


John Eyre Head Married Male 39 1852 House Painter Derby
Alice Eyre Wife Married Female 37 1854 - Spondon, Derbyshire, England

Annie Eyre Daughter 18 1873 Tailoress Derby
Frank Eyre Son 16 1875 House Painter Derby
Florence Eyre 15 1876 Lace Hand Derby
Charles Eyre 9 *1882* Scholar Nottingham
- possibly John's children?

Ernest Eyre 4 1887 Scholar Nottingham
- possibly John and Alice's child together?

Edward Eyre 9 *1882* Scholar Nottingham
- possibly a child of Alice before marriage to John?


Births Jun 1881
EYRE Charles Nottingham 7b 315

but no Edward Eyre birth 1881-1883


and in 1911 Alice Eyre shows as married 22 years with no children ... but her landlady may well have just filled the whole thing in herself

Name: Alice Eyre
Birth Date: abt 1853
Date of Registration: Dec 1930
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 388

In 1911, John Eyre, painter, is a lodger in Derby and states widowed


but in any case it was a longstanding marriage - 1881:

John J. Eyre abt 1852 Derbyshire, England - Head - Nottingham St Mary
Alice Eyre abt 1854 Spondon, Derbyshire, England - Wife
Anne Eyre abt 1873 Derbyshire, England - Daughter
Frank Eyre abt 1875 Derbyshire, England - Son
Florence Eyre abt 1876 Derbyshire, England - Daughter
Elizabeth Eyre abt 1879 Derbyshire, England - Daughter
Infant Eyre Nottm, Nottinghamshire, England - Son = Charles 1881


so the marriage is

Marriages Dec 1872
Eyre John Isaac Derby 7b 929
Winfield Alice Derby 7b 929


and of course NOW I see that Susan has in her tree at this site (along with two other members who have the same, one of whom also has Alice Winfield 1852)

>>>> Harry Eyre 1892 Nottingham Nottingham

so who knows why you said 1890 in your opening post Susan, and is it your belief that this Harry son of John and Alice is your Harry?

since John and Alice appear to have had an on again off again relationship, possibly John was not Harry's father ...


anyway my guess has been that 'relatives of Harry Eyre' means Harry's siblings rather than his children, but it's impossible to say from the question

just so we're not guessing at the puzzle pieces that Susan did not provide

Marriages Sep 1919
Eyre Harry World Portsmouth 2b 1420
World Winifred A Eyre Portsmouth 2b 1420

with 3 children then born


Susan it is best to give all the relevant info you have, and if you have not confirmed it with records, say it is an estimate, e.g. 'born 1890 Nottingham', where is that info from?

as malyon says there are Henry births in Basford and Worksop in 1890, no Harry in Nottingham proper

this birth

Births Dec 1892
Eyre Harry Nottingham 7b 339

is the one in 1901 census with mother Alice of course

his name has been corrected from mistranscribed 'Qie' at Ancestry by a user who says:
'Correction due to an error in transcription. CWGC casualty details'

I don't see any record at CWGC that appears to match this Harry:
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx
... could possibly be this one with no age or next of kin listed:
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1742239/EYRE,%20HARRY


is this your Harry's death in Hampshire?

Name: Harry Eyre
> Birth Date: 1892
Date of Registration: Dec 1925
Age at Death: 33
Registration district: Alverstoke
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 746

sadly the year after his third child's birth


his wife remarried in 1928 and had two more children of whom you would likely be aware

I would guess this is his widow's death

Name: Winifred Ada Lewis
Birth Date: 10 Aug 1900
Date of Registration: Mar 1983
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Portsmouth
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 20
Page: 0775

I expect this is her birth, with the initial 'W' signifying her father's surname

Births Sep 1900
Wheeler Winifred Ada W Portsmouth 2b 405

Marriages Sep 1902
Wheeler Ada Mary Portsmouth 2b 1204
World William Portsmouth 2b 1204

I mention this because you have her as Winifred World 1901 in your tree

In a message from Susan she says that on his marriage certificate Harry names his father as Michael. I can't find one with a father called Michael although I did find this census record in 1901 where the mother is Alice and says married but no husband at home on the census:-

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
25, Stoneleigh Terrace, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Alice Eyre Wife Married Female 47 1854 - Spondon, Derbyshire, England
Charles Eyre Son Single Male 20 1881 Moulder Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Ernest Eyre Son - Male 14 1887 Errand Boy Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Harry Eyre Son - Male 9 1892 - Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

However I think I have found this family in the 1891 census and Alice's husband is John and not Michael:-

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Radnor Street, St Mary, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

John Eyre Head Married Male 39 1852 House Painter Derby
Alice Eyre Wife Married Female 37 1854 - Spondon, Derbyshire, England
Annie Eyre Daughter Single Female 18 1873 Tailoress Derby
Frank Eyre Son Single Male 16 1875 House Painter Derby
Florence Eyre Daughter - Female 15 1876 Lace Hand Derby
Charles Eyre Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Nottingham
Ernest Eyre Son - Male 4 1887 Scholar Nottingham
Edward Eyre Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Nottingham

Kath. x

could be the henry born in basford the one born in worksop could have died in 1939

Henry Eyre
England and Wales Birth Registration Index
Name Henry Eyre
Event Type Birth Registration
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year 1890
Registration District Worksop
County Nottinghamshire
Event Place Worksop, Nottinghamshire, England
Volume 7B
Page 23
Line Number 255



Henry Eyre
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
birth: 1890
death: 1939 Worksop, Nottinghamshire, England

if you can find the 1891 census for harry there are 2 henry eyre's born 1890

Have sent a third message with what appears to be the death of the third of Harry's children. The informant on the death certificate may be a relative.

Kath. x

Will send another pm with another strand of the family just in case the records I sent before are your own family.

Kath. x

Have sent the information now. Click on "Messages" near top of screen.

EDIT - sorry Susan, I've just realised by seeing your surname that it may be your own family information that I have sent you. Let me know if it is and I will look into marriages and children of another of Harry's children.

Kath. x

Thank you

Will send a pm with possible descendants in Hampshire.

Kath. x