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Hiya. Thanks for replying. Just for the heck of it I'll send off for Sarah's birth certificate. To me this is a mystery family. My battery is running low so am just going to charge it.

Kind regards

Kathryn

Same address in 1961

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Name: Johanna Sutton
Year: 1961
County or Borough: Lambeth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Norwood
Street address: 96 Purser House
With Bernard , Elizabeth ,Sarah ,and Thomas T. Sutton

Well that's the same address

Electoral roll
Tulse Hill Ward
Name: Johanna Sutton
Year: 1964
County or Borough: Lambeth
Street address: 96 Purser House
Reference Number: LCC/PER/B/3042

Living with an Elizabeth Sutton and Sandra Sutton (maybe a mistype for Sarah)

I'm thinking that the B Sutton witness was her brother

and that possibly her father was not her mother's husband

and she fabricated 'Joseph Sutton' from her real father's name and her mother's husband's surname ...

(again, too much info for the public board, but we will edit later)


this birth would fit Edward

Births Sep 1935
Lloyd Edward G Williams Holywell 11b 230

Hi Kathryn, to answer the question in your private message - all of us who have posted in the thread will see your new post when we come to the site and click on 'My threads' :-)

also it will be up top of the forum where new people may see it


myself, I have to be doing something else for a couple of hours (but I saw I had a message from you so looked in) but I'll be back :-)


there's some rather personal info in your message, in case these people are still living, but it can be edited out later

Good evening all. Have just received the marriage certificate for Sarah Mary Margaret Sutton. I believe we have a mystery on our hands or it might just be me getting confused (doesn't take much nowadays)!!!

Right Sarah Sutton marries an Edward Gareth Lloyd on 10 April 1965 at the Church of Our Lady of the Rosary in Stockwell, Lambeth, London. Sarah's age is given as 30 and a spinster. Her occupation is a Dancer. (I know this is the one in the same Sarah who had the child who was adopted because she gave her occupation as being in Variety). Her address is given as 96 Purser House, Tulse Hill, SW2. Her father though is given as Joseph Sutton (Deceased) who was an interior decorator. Bizarrely one of the witnesses is a B Sutton the other B S Harkham or Markham.

We know for sure Sarah's mother's maiden name was Lawlor. I cannot find a marriage for a Joseph Sutton and a lady with the surname of Lawlor.

Now onto her husband, Edward Gareth Lloyd age 29 years, Bachelor and a Musician. His address given is the same as Sarah's at the time of their marriage. His father was an Edward Lloyd and his occupation is given as a Process Worker and looks like Fabric (Retired).

No I am stumped as we obviously thought that Sarah's parents were Bernard and Johanna Sutton nee Lawlor. What's going on????? I cannot find a birth either for an Edward Gareth Lloyd. Perhaps I'm not looking hard enough.

I know we are to be by our computers in case we get replies but can I just explain that I work full time and am out during the day between 7.30am and 6pm so during the week can only access my computer/laptop first thing in the morning or when I come home so if anyone replies to this thread during the day please be patient in my replying as it won't be until the evening time but of course, as ever, am eternally grateful for any help.

Hope this thread comes up renewed so people will realise I've added to it.

As ever,

Kind regards


Kathryn

Hi all, I've passed on all the information to Nicky and she has passed back her thanks to everyone for their time and help in this quest. It is up to her now to make any contact but I wish her well. I am still waiting to see if I hear from the people I messaged who have a couple of the family in their tree. If I hear anything I will let you all know. I am also waiting to receive the marriage certificate of Sarah and Edward to see if anything can be gained from that ie Edwards age etc to see if that avenue can be gone down so to speak. Once again I too thank you all for your time and help so far. I know this one isn't totally finished yet but if anything else can be found once the certificate is received and the other members on GR get back to me then I will re visit this posting.

I might have another quest in a week or two so will definitely be back on that one.

You're all so kind.

Kindest regards

Kathryn

Hi Joonie, my you're so clever, I am amazed at the amount of info you've come up with. Am just hoping that the people I've contacted get back to me. I do so appreciate all the help. There is light at the end of the tunnel!!! Will contact once I've heard back. As before, my eyes are tired now so am going to sign off shortly. I do appreciated everyone's help and realise I should sit by the laptop in case anyone sends a message but I now need a couple of matchsticks to keep the lids open. Will check back in the morning. Sorry but needs must although I am eager to keep going.

Speak later so to speak and once again thank you for the wealth of information and the time you and everyone else has taken helping me in this quest.

Kindest regards

Kathryn

fingers crossed because further checking shows that the person who has 'Joanna" 1905 in their tree at this webite (at the link I gave earlier) is a great-grandchild of Joanna and Bernard, a grandchild of their son Bernard Jr

since Bernard Jr was eligible to vote by 1954, I expect the two Bernards in that ER listing are Johanna's husband and son

Hi again, I have just messaged the other person too. As you say fingers crossed. If anything comes back I'll let you all know. Just going to check which ER I found the two Bernard's in together with Johanna. They are showing in the 1954 ER at 25 Clayton Road, Dulwich/Peckham. Am sure there are others with B Snr and B Jnr on but will have to have a good nose later. My eyes are getting tired now I've been on my laptop nearly all day.

Kindest


Kathryn

this is the death of Bernard Jnr (presumed to be the son of Johanna and Bernard)

Name: Bernard Augustus Sutton
Birth Date: 15 Aug 1931
Date of Registration: Oct 1992
Age at Death: 61
Registration district: Southwark
Inferred County: London
Volume: 15
Page: 223

Births Sep 1931 (registered in 1933 and backdated)
Sutton Bernard A Lawlor Hammersmith 1A See M 1933
Sutton Bernard A Lawlor Hammersmith 1a See M 33
Births Mar 1933
Sutton Bernard A Lawlor Hammersmith 1a 274

he most likely married 1955 in Camberwell and there are 3 likely births to that marriage

this http://tinyurl.com/pnqg7q6
is the family composition of one of the married children
(not known whether the contact info is current as there are no current electoral roll or telephone listings)
i.e. who seems to be a child of your Sarah's brother

ah unfortunately that address was sold in 2006 when the above listing ends
http://tinyurl.com/own93sa

If that was a later ER with the 2 Bernards on it, I wonder whether the Jnr was the son of Bernard and Johanna and Snr is Johanna's husband

this is the link to the family tree results for Bernard Jnr, showing the person who also has 'Joanna' Lawlor in their tree

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/tree/results/sutton/bernard?memberkey=0&yearofbirth=1931&yearofbirthrange=0

which does suggest that the 1905 'Joanna' is yours, if that tree owner has the correct info

you probably missed the family tree entry here for Joanna Lawlor because you forgot to misspell it 'Johanna' as 'Joanna', as I did :-D

I did it accidentally, but it is always a good idea to try spelling variants (Joanna, Lawler ...) because spellings change and sometimes people were not positive of the spelling of their own names, especially after moving far from home

freebmd for example only searches for the exact spelling you give, and you have to try variants or wildcards sometimes

fingers crossed that those tree owners are still receiving notifications of messages here

Hi, I've contacted both people with Joanna/Johanna in their trees and hope that they reply. Thank you again for the valuable information. Am also looking forward to receiving the marriage cert of Sarah to Edward G Lloyd and hope that may well yield something too.

Kindest

Kathryn

Hiya, sorry, I now see you have posted some more info for which I thank you. I believe the lady in America would like contact perhaps if the grandmother is still alive or at least contact with any immediate family if grandmother is not.

On one of the ER's Johanna is living with Bernard but it also mentions a Bernard Snr, the other being called Bernard Jnr so I think maybe Bernard's father was also called Bernard. Not unless I'm now getting totally confused.

Kindest

Kathryn

Hiya, thank you JoonieCloonie and Shirley again. Johanna Lawlor who marries Bernard Sutton is definitely correct as they are together with Sarah in an earlier ER at the address in Peckham which is given on the birth certificate of Sarah's son that I have just obtained. I did wonder if Johanna was born in Ireland as I could not find a birth for her here. I will contact those people although I'm sure I already typed in a search with Johanna's name and it didn't come up with anything.

Thanks everyone yet again.

Kindest

Kathryn

and I would suggest a candidate for Bernard Sutton in the 1911 census, given the location

Name: Bernard Sutton
Age in 1911: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1905
Relation to Head: Son (Child)
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wick > it says Chiswick London, not 'Wick'
> Civil Parish: Hammersmith
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 22 A Orchard Road, Shepherds Bush, London
Occupation: SCHOOL
Registration district: Fulham
Thomas Sutton 35
Olevia Sutton 35
Bernard Sutton 6
Stanley Sutton 0

the essential information is the spouses' fathers' names from the Sutton-Lawlor marriage certificate

the place of birth (and father's name) would make this Bernard

Births Jun 1904
Sutton Bernard Thomas Brentford 3a 168

who died 1976 in Canterbury, and married someone else, however, so likely a bad guess


is your friend in fact wanting contact with her father's birth family? or just genealogical information about them?

by the way, there is nothing at all pest-ish about your query! it is what the other members here are here for, to nosey around in other people's family trees and help sort them out and find what is being looked for

pest-ish is when people don't give all the info they have, start multiple threads about the same family, don't reply to replies ... you are the very model of the perfect poster here!

it's rather lucky I spelt Johanna's name wrong when searching trees here at genesreunited ...

there is another possibility in trees at this website

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/tree/results/lawlor/johanna?memberkey=0&yearofbirth=1905&yearofbirthrange=5

but I think the fact that the first person I mentioned has both Joanna Lawlor 1905 and the apparent child of your Sutton-Lawlor marriage is rather persuasive

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBLW-JMJ

Name: Johanna Lawlor
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: Apr - Jun 1905
Event Place: Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1905
Registration District: Dublin South
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 656

I would guess

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Usher_s_Quay/Taylor_s_Lane/74310/

Lawlor Thomas 48 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic labourer
Lawlor Ellen 38 Female Wife Roman Catholic
Lawlor Alice 17 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Lawlor Kate 9 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Lawlor Johanna 6 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Labourer Mary Ellen Female Daughter Roman Catholic

possibly ...

Name: Johanna Sutton
Birth Date: 25 Jan 1905
Date of Registration: Dec 1984
Age at Death: 79
Registration district: Swansea
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Volume: 27
Page: 2448

it's annoying that there were actually two Sutton-Lawlor marriages in London in 1930!

so the birth in Paddington just prior to the marriage most likely belongs to that other marriage

there is a birth in 1931 in Hammersmith, oddly not registered until 1933 (and no apparent 1931 registration under a different surname), that might be thought to be to your Sutton-Lawlor marriage since the name is the same as the husband's

two people appear to have that person in their family tree at this website

aha

one of those people also has in their tree

Joanna Lawlor 1905 Bagnestown, Ireland

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/tree/results/lawlor/joanna?memberkey=0&yearofbirth=1900&yearofbirthrange=10

I think you want to contact that person :-)