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Yes based on the death record but also something mum said "I think they adopted me to have someone to look after them in their old age"

oops Rita I thought I had posted this (below) last night but it's still here!

Rita, I intentionally did not mention the surnames involved because this is the internet and anyone could see this discussion, and it isn't really fair to talk about people behind their backs in public (especially if they are not even connected)

I think that daughter's marriage is recorded as Patricia V. She then remarried and is on the current electoral roll.

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I had missed the reference to Shropshire on the previous page so this is the death Rita was looking at

Name: Florence Miles
Birth Date: abt 1886
Date of Registration: Dec 1968
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Ludlow
Inferred County: Shropshire
Volume: 9a
Page: 123

no middle name though

and again no Albert death in the vicinity

in 1937 she would have been about 51 ... but that really is quite old to adopt a young child

was your saying that she was 51 when she adopted based on that death record? ... that would be going at things a little backwards :-)



I've just scanned at freebmd through the entire list of births in Q2 1937 in Manchester North (thanks Rose) and I see only 3 sets of female twins, surnames for anyone else who wants to look

McL*
Wal*
Woo*

there are no deaths there that quarter for any of those surnames (mother said to have died in childbirth)

For the McL* twins, I found the death of one in married name (unusual given names) but for the other no marriage or death

there is no marriage to match the surnames and there are no other births to the couple

however it seems that the twin who died in 1982 married under a different surname i.e. not her birth surname

I can't see how that would connect up though as Patricia's twin is supposed to have stayed with her father

>> edit - also her birthdate was in June, so no match

it's so hard to get a handle on this ... Patricia's mother died in childbirth but Patricia was adopted at age 3 while her father kept her twin ...

No it is the Florence Miles death in Ludlow, Shropshire, 1968

Ancoats would have been in Manchester North registration district in 1937.

Rose

unfortunately the parents of the Patricia B married in Manchester, and had two other children, and there is no twin for that birth

does anybody know their Manchester registration geography?

there are two possible births in the april-june quarter of 1937, one in Manchester South and one in Manchester north

a Patricia B and a Patricia B M (the second one has some obvious Irish in the surnames, but then that isn't uncommon in that area)

ah ... Patricia B M married, but there is no further record of the Patricia B (marriage or death) ... is this a possibility??


this is the death you are looking at?

Name: Florence M Miles
Birth Date: abt 1893
Date of Registration: Dec 1968
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Chippenham
Inferred County: Wiltshire
Volume: 7c
Page: 704

there doesn't seem to be an Albert Miles death in the vicinity

It also says Campbell Road on Adoption cert so is Swinton..

It also says Campbell Road on Adotion cert so is Swinton..

Yes, they were Roman Catholics at that time.

Hi there,

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply but I have been ivestigating!

According to my Mother's Army Records, her next of kin was stated as:

Florence May Miles, living in Ludlow Shropshire including the address. I did a search and found a death in 1968.

As my mother was adopted by Albert and Florence in April 1940 at nearly 3 years old I am assuming her name was already Patricia but may be wrong. It looks like Florence was 51 when she adopted my mother.

Is any of that any help?

ah, died in France, your family has hardly left a trace in England in recent generations!

still the question of whether you know whether (at least whether she thought) her birth name was Patricia Bernadette

and whether you know anything about where she grew up as that would tell us where to look for records of Albert and Florence

how adoptions worked at the time ... would her parents have been Roman Catholic? I wonder whether she would have been placed with an RC couple ...

13 May 1937

She died in France and she told me she was born in ancoats

Rita, can you tell us your mum's birthdate?
(not against the rules as she is deceasead)
and where and when she died?

we've figured out her married name assuming it stayed the same, you don't have to put it here

is it a tree of yours where she is shown as born in Ancoats under her adoptive name? if so was that a guess?

odds are that she was born somewhere in Lancashire if her mother travelled from Ireland. If we know the date, and if there really was a twin, we might be able to work it out, or at least narrow it down

You won't find overseas births on here.

Do you know when or where she was born? Was she Patricia Bernadette at birth or given this name later?

Rose

Thank you for your comments. I will give you all the information I have.

I never knew my Mother's adoptive parents. She was never in contact with them as far back as I remember. She mentioned that I met them once when I was a baby.

She once commented that they had other children but I can't confirm this.

She related a story that her mother came over from Ireland to give birth to twins. My mother was left in England with family and the twin 'Annie' was taken to Ireland with the father as the mother died of childbirth. She said she went to Ireland (Londonderry) for a little while and attended school there and had a brother called Paddy/Patrick. I can't confirm this story.

She lived in Tenbury Wells for a while and worked in a paint factory. She joined the army, met my father in Singapore where they married. I wonder if Albert and Florence lived in the Tenbury Wells too.

That is all I can think of at the moment. Still looking for our (her children's) birth records on here but not sure what I am doing!!


:-)

Cambell Road in Winton is about 1 mile from Shaftesbury Avenue ...

hopefully Rita will answer some questions

as it seems Patricia spent many years outside the country, Rita may not know when Patricia's adoptive parents died

Is it Campbell or Cambell?

If they lived in Winton, it's Cambell Road.

If they lived in Swinton it's Campbell Road.

Swinton and Winton are both near Eccles.

Rose

More information here:

http://www.francisfrith.com/us/eccles/patricia-bernadette-miles_memory-298341

What was your mother's birth surname in case there's a small chance Florence was related?

Rose

When did her parents die ? Their death certs will give age and possibly and date of birth depending on when they died

As Shirley says, Rita, do you know where your mother grew up?

that information would give an idea of where to look for their deaths, for instance

you have no idea whether she had any brothers or sisters, born to the couple or adopted?

any idea when her adoptive parents died?

do you want to give the address on the adoption certificate, which could help find them on electoral rolls as mentioned?

for example there are telephone listings for A Miles in the ECCles exchange 1951-1959 (8 Shaftesbury av Brtn)

there is this death in Barton which covers Eccles

Albert W Miles (born) abt 1913 Dec 1965 Barton

but there are too many Albert Miles deaths to guess of course