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Well after a needle in a haystack search there was a Mary Ann Moore b1872 Holywell Flintshire residing in St John's Deaf and Dumb Institute Wetherby, 1901 occ Laundry maid. . Going back to the information found so far with the connection of Mrs Hawcroft also being deaf and dumb and attending an institution herself in Boston Spa nr Wetherby also the 1911 census of Mary Ann Moore stating she was Deaf and Dumb also that she was a former laundress. This finding seems feasible except for where the birth places but then she could have been unsure exactly where she was born and put where she was living at the time. Saying all this I am still unable to find a Mary Ann Moore b1872 Flintshire in any other census but a death for one in Holywell Flintshire in 1955 so really unsure if it is the Mary Ann Moore I am looking for. Any ideas please

I also saw for the workhouse records 1870 birth and Kay I think you must mean first quarter of 1872. I will certainly have another look. I think also Polly was a nickname, only going on the faint Mary Ann? along side Polly in one of the Workhouse records. I am awaiting news on Tuesday about Henshaws deaf and dumb school to see if she attended there, so hope that might give some information. Did you look at the 1911 census for Mary Ann b Patricroft 1871, that's where it states she was deaf and dumb Many thanks.

The workhouse records all put,1871 for *Pollys* birth year,so could be a 1871 /or even first quarter 1880 you need to look at.?

Kay, this is not the Moore family I want. It's a coincidence that they lived in Newcastle Street Hulme. I have been in contact with someone from this family of Hiram Moore and Mary E Moore was her grandmother so eliminated them.

First name(s) Mary E
Last name Moore
Relationship Daughter
Marital status -
Gender Female
Age 3
Birth year 1868
Occupation -
Birth town -
Birth county Lancashire
Birth county as transcribed LANCASHIRE
Birth place England
House name -
Street **Newcastle Street***
Parish Hulme
Town -
City Manchester
County Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Chorlton
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 3995
Folio 45
Page 35
Record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Census
Collections from Great Britain.

Moores were at Newcastle Street in 1871 census,you might need to follow further census to link them to *Polly*

Kay. Yes I have bought the birth certificate for Mary Teresa Moore, also bought the death certificate, she died in 1970 in an Institution so she was Institutionalised for most of her life. ( her own daughter never knew this) Unsure if any of the other Moores in the workhouse are related but surely it would state in the column who were her next of kin but it states Mrs Hawcroft friend and they both have the same address listed.. I will look to see if I can find a Mary Hannah in any census up to 1904

Have you bought the birth certificate of Mary T Moore for details of the mother.....also have thought about Mary Hannah and allowijng a year either side of 1870.
find mypast has the workhouse image and say -admited by mother Polly Moore,,discharged 1906,,,admitted 1905 from Hulme.

There is also other Moores in there at the same time who are RC.,,,,,related?

PS. Obviously I was trying to find out about Robert John and Mary Moore because it's stated as parents of Mary Ann Moore b 1870 Manchester on the birth certificate I sent for, which is recently proving not the Mary Ann Moore I want. Sorry if Iam doing everything wrong but as an OAP the brain not so alert computer wise., and trying to find Mary Ann Moore has been very brain testing for me. !!!!!

Joonie
I am looking on behalf of my cousins family who live in America and know nothing about their mothers family who was brought up by my family as a young child. Her mother died in an Asylum in Sheffield and never knew her ie MaryTeresa Moore. I rrote to the RC care society who have given me information about Mary Teresa Moore at the time of the birth of her daughter. I found Mary Teresa Moore, firstly on the Manchester Workhouse records in 1904 and then later when she was in Holly Mount in 1911. On the workhouse records it states that Mary Ann Moore was named as Polly. The address at the time was given as Newcastle Street Manchester, hence why I thought she may have been a daughter of Hiram Moore who also lived in Newcastle Street Manchester. However I have eliminated him I sent away for the birth certificate of Mary Teresa Moore and it gave her mothers name as Pollie Moore,No father. Upon looking at the Workhouse paperwork it states Polly (Mary Ann, was written faintly alongside the name of Polly) was born in Manchester 1870, hence why I sent for the birth certificate of the only Mary Ann Moore b 1870 Manchester on the birth lists., which seems to be proving that is not her. On the 1911 census I found a Mary Ann Moore b 1870 and states she was deaf and dumb. I am now trying to fine out if she was in Henshaws Deaf and Dumb school Manchester because there is no sighting of her for 30 yrs. On the 1904 Manchester register it states that her friend was a Mrs Hawcroft who lived in Newcastle Street Manchester and that was also the address of "Polly" Moore. I have found that Mrs Hawcroft was also deaf and dumb as was her husband and 2 lodgers and these 2 ladies all worked in the tailoress industry. On the birth cert of Mary Teresa Moore it gave the occ of her mother Pollie as being a tailors presser and was living in the house of a Annie Hart b 1876 occ Tailoress and it was in her house that Pollie's daughter Mary Teresa Moore was born in 1903. So it seems that perhaps Annie Hart and Mrs Hawcroft could all have possibly known each other. I hope this might shed a bit more light on it all for you

for example in 1911


Name: Mary Ann Moore
Age in 1911: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Attendant (Day attendant at County Lunatic Asylum)
Birth Place: Mullingar, Ireland
Civil Parish: Prestwich
County/Island: Lancashire
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Day Attendant
Registration district: Prestwich

right so I have just looked at other threads (thank you so much greyghost) and seen that this same goose chase has gone on in another case, Hiram Moore ......

starting at the end and working forward just is never the way to go

the one thing that comes to mind that seems never to have been mentioned is:

have you considered that the mother of Mary Teresa Moore who was a child in an RC institution in 1911, and had her own baby in an RC facility, and was a laundress in Manchester ... was Irish?

it seems a rather obvious possibility to me

I'm lost.

Is the woman who had the child in the workhouse the one who is really your focus - your ancestor or the ancestor of somebody you are doing the research for?

That is, were the Moores who emigrated only the hypothetical ancestors of the person you are interested in? and if the MAM born in Manchester in 1870 is the one who died in 1871, the entire reconstruction of their history has been a wild goose chase?

the problem with too many threads ... information in bits and pieces all over the joint ...

whatever the case, the death certificate will decide the next steps I guess



edit, yes, I see from other threads that you are really looking for the mother of Mary Teresa Moore born 1903 and this intense scrutiny of this Moore family was to all appearances not useful ...

I trust you will not start more threads, but in future if you do about something else, remember that you should ask what you are really wanting to find out, not tangential questions that might have been knocked on the head promptly if the people reading had known what the real question was

you were not looking for the relatives of John Moore and Mary Davy, you were looking for the mother of Mary Teresa Moore born 1903 ... and I will still have to figure out whether you have that birth certificate

Will do, but if she is the daughter,then it's back to square one again to try and find Mary Ann Moore b 1870 Manchester that I seem unable to find for 30 years.

it will be interesting to know what the death certificate says, for all those who have worked on the tale, so don't forget to come back with the info when you have it! :-)

OK . Yes I was listening but obviously I have to send for a death certificate for Marion Moore d. 1871 Wetherby, they certainly registered her as Mary Ann Moore at birth 1870 . If this is the case then I am on a wild goose chase with this Mary Ann Moore. I was convinced the Mary Ann Moore birth for 1870 Manchester was the one in the workhouses because unable to find another one in Manchester, there was a Mary A Moore b 1870 Manchester but she was a Mary Alice Moore.. Back to square one again. Thank you all for your time

John, forgive me, but are you paying attention?

you have the burial record that precisely matches the death record I posted

Deaths Dec 1871
Moore Marion 1 Wetherby 9a 93

you seem to hear the advice about not getting stuck on spelling, and then ignore it

Mary Ann = Marianne = Marion

it is that simple

very likely her parents didn't know how to spell her name, and they relied on vicars and registrars

if her birth was registered in one place and her death was registered and she was buried in another, the clergyman and registrar there would not have had any record to refer to for the spelling, so somebody heard 'Mary Ann' and wrote 'Marion'

is this her birth?

Births Mar 1870
MOORE Mary Ann Manchester 8d 400

that birth matches the age of 1 in the 1871 census

so the reason she did not emigrate with the parents is that she died before

but the only way you can be certain is to see the death record, which for a child that young should name the parents (early childhood deaths in my family in the 1870s do show parents' names I know)

I have not tried hard enough to figure out the whole tale in this thread and all its cousins

you have identified a Mary Ann who was deaf and mute in later census in England and you think she was the couple's daughter?

it is possible they had another daughter and named her for the dead child, not uncommon at all, but do their births not overlap?


http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1351313?d=desc

'I have had confirmation today that Polly (Mary Ann)Moore was named as the mother of Mary Teresa Moore who was admitted into Holly Mount convent in 1906 age 3 from the Manchester Chorlton upon Medlock workhouse, her mother still being in the workhouse. Now is the question who were the parents of Mary Ann Moore b 1870 Manchester'

and you answered that in this thread

'I received a birth certificate for Mary Ann Moore yesterday and her parents are Robert John Moore and Mary Davy, born at the same address as in the 1871 census.So definetly the daughter of the Moores that went to Massachusetts'

so did they actually leave a child behind or have you assumed that the Mary Ann in the workhouse is their Mary Ann?

it seems much more likely that their Mary Ann died in 1871 in Wetherby (understanding that this is where the mother Mary's parents were)

but there is nothing for it but to get that 1871 death certificate to be sure


the name in the parish burial records is certainly Moore

(for anyone else looking, just do a site-wide search at Ancestry for surname Morie, year range 1871-1871, keyword Wetherby)

she was 1 3/4 years old which matches with a late 1870 birth

Robert John and Mary Moore is the family I have gone for but they did not have Mary Ann b 1870 with them when they emigrated to America in 1872 hence they either left her behind or she died previously. I found a burial in Wetherby in 1871 as I said but looking at the burial record for St James Wetherby it's hard to make out, looks similar to Moore to me but Ancestry have transcribed it as Morie. Nethertheless I could not find a death registered for a Mary Ann Moore or Morie in 1871 in either Manchester where the family lived or Wetherby where the parents of Mary Moore nee Davy lived. It's so hard trying to find where Mary Ann Moore b 1870 was for 30 years if it wasn't her that died.

Since 'Morie' is not actually a name, do we not suspect a mistranscription?


1871 in Blackley, Manchester, Lancashire

Robt John Moore 26
Mary Moore 23
>> Mary Ann Moore 1
Sarah E Moore 2 Months
William Stephen 21 lodger


There were no Moore births in Wetherby reg dist 1869-1871.


Also, note that you are often best off not to put nicknames or variants or any name at all. Here, I searched only for the year 1871, the reg dist Wetherby (the info you had) and the surname Mo*

if you had had to narrow it further, you could search for Ma* Mo* for instance ... Ma* would cover Mary, Marianne, Marian ...

Yes I realise I needed to put nicknames in and the variations of spellings
but this Mary Ann on the burials is transcribed as Morie and she was buried on 27th October 1871 as Mary Ann, I will have a look for Marion Moore on the 1871 census. to see if there was one in Wetherby. Many thanks

Deaths Dec 1871
Moore Marion 1 Wetherby 9a 93

It was found easily by searching for surname Mo* in that place and quarter, but since you suspected Moore, you only needed to search for that surname

was there not discussion earlier of the variant spellings of Mary Ann?