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CHILDS Beryl Lorna
Death notice 10AUG1989
late of Ingleburn, formerly of Shoalhaven Heads
Sydney Morning Herald 12AUG1989

CHILDS Beryl Lorna
Death notice 10AUG1989
late of Ingleburn, formerly of Shoalhaven Heads and Moorebank
Daily Telegraph (Sydney) 12AUG1989

CHILDS George David
Death notice 13JUL2014
Death 94
at Glenfield, late of Ingleburn and Moorebank
Daily Telegraph (Sydney) 19JUL2014

CHILDS George David
Death notice 13JUL2014
Death 94
at Glenfield, late of Ingleburn and Moorebank
Sydney Morning Herald 19JUL2014


the newspaper death notices would possibly list family members

otherwise the death certificates should list any children

how unfortunate that George died only last year.

Beryl had a load of siblings born up to 1914 (cutoff date for access)

41805/1911 HECKENBERG DULCIE E
EDWIN H EMILY M LIVERPOOL

13578/1897 HECKENBERG EDWIN A G
EDWIN H EMILY M LIVERPOOL

22244/1899 HECKENBERG EDNA F
EDWIN H EMILY M LIVERPOOL

23440/1901 HECKENBERG NINA R
EDWIN H EMILY M LIVERPOOL

31390/1903 HECKENBERG CHARLES E
EDWIN H EMILY M LIVERPOOL

21413/1914 HECKENBERG BERYL L
EDWIN H EMILY M LIVERPOOL


if you haven't looked for their deaths or marriages you should do that

https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search


since George was born later his birth record (to find parents' names) is not accessible

and death records which should also show parents' names in the online index are not accessible for such recent deaths


HECKENBERG Edwin Alfred
Death notice 14APR1978
Death 81
late of Oak Flats
Sydney Morning Herald 15APR1978

Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name: Edwin H Heckenberg
Birth Date: 1871
Father's name: William Heckenberg
Mother's name: Virginia
Birth Place: New South Wales
Registration Year: 1871
Registration Place: Liverpool, New South Wales
Registration Number: 11848

Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Edwin Henry Heckenberg
Death Date: 1938
Death Place: New South Wales
Father's name: William
Mother's name: Girginia
Registration Year: 1938
Registration Place: Redfern, New South Wales
Registration Number: 689

Marriage:
Name: Edwin H Heckenberg
Spouse Name: Emily M Graham
Marriage Date: 1896
Marriage Place: New South Wales
Registration Place: Smithfield, New South Wales
Registration Year: 1896
Registration Number: 8207

Search the Australian Archives,,,,, WW1services records can be viewed for many members of the Heckenberg famiy,listing place of birth,(Liverpool)next of kin,ages,etc,plus later records of later years.

Thanks so much everyone, I'm sorry that I didn't mention that Liverpool was in Australia and for not including more detail. I've had great success on Ancestry tracing this part of my family, mostly thanks to the other people doing all the hard work. It's amazing. My Beryl is the daughter of Edwin b 1871 she married Donald Arthur Moir in 1930 and George David Childs in 1960 but somewhere between 1934 and 1940 she had her only child, my father. I didn't know him, he left when I was 9yo, I met him when I was about 25yo. His name was James Edward William Simpson. I'm trying to find out who his father was.

Ah, that is the kind of detail we needed, to know what you needed (and not go 'finding' things you already know ............)

Can you say how you know what your dad's mother's name was? have you seen his marriage certificate for example (and it doesn't name his father?)

is your dad deceased now? just since you speak of him in the past tense

was he married to your mum and have you seen the marriage certificate? it would state age and parent(s)

it would seem his father was a Simpson who consented to being named on the certificate, if he wasn't married to Beryl

tracing relations of Beryl's siblings seems like the most likely way to find info about her life ... possibly a niece or nephew still living would have known her


a tip too ... use the 'Edit' link at the top of your first post to fix the spelling of the surname ... search engines find this site and if someone searched for her name they would find your thread

perhaps, sadly, I wonder whether this could be Barbara who has Beryl in her tree

SHAW Barbara Anne
Death notice 05JUL2013
The Age (Melbourne) 08JUL2013
Herald Sun (Melbourne) 08JUL2013

Sandra, do you know your dad may have had another child or children? specifically, and it's a difficult question, a child who died when you were quite young?

this is an awkward and not pleasant way of finding information ... it's what I did to find out a family member's grandparents' names since we knew only her first and his last names ... by searching for deaths with the grandfather's surname and grandmother's given name, I found a death record of a child of theirs who died in infancy and so was able to learn the father's given name and mother's surname...

in jurisdictions not like the UK, where births themselves are not accessible after cutoff dates too long ago, the deaths of children can provide information about the parents


I searched for deaths of persons named Simpson with father James Edward W

I will send you the result by PM

Oh you are clever JL, yes my baby brother died of cot death in 1968. I didn't even think. It proves that WAS his name though, thankyou so much! I will look up those 2 things right now! I was thinking of applying for his death certificate as well. Will get back to you on results. Thanks again.

I sent you the PM while you were replying :-)

I think you may have read my post above in the thread before I fixed it ... I had been looking at a marriage to someone with initials CD ... and then I checked back to it and realized the groom was John Edward W, not James Edward W, so all my apologies if you saw it before I deleted it and I led you astray.

now if I'm understanding ... if you are looking for confirmation of your father's name ... it is not on your birth certificate? The really important thing to get will be your parents' marriage certificate if they were married, because at least James's age should be there and you will know whether he named a father.

Hi JC (I did JL by mistake last time) My parents never married my Mum's name is Edwina Margorie Quinn b 15/11/1934, she passed away 2 years ago. I've looked for clues in his names, especially having 3 but I don't really have a start point. When I was very young I found my older brothers birth certificate and I remember it said 'Mother not married to Father' but the rest of us were never registered, Mum got us birth certificates by going into the offices and doing staturary declarations. Besides me there are David Edward b1962, Paul William b 1966, Debra Ann b 1969,Michael John b 1971 and William Patrick b 1973. We have all always been Simpson. I'm sure Dad was younger than Mum, for some reason 3 years has a ring to it. I'm trying to trace living relatives of Beryl and even George eventhough he's not related to me. Beryl was only 17yo when she married Donald, if it was because of a pregnancy then the baby was never born but it may be a reason that their marriage didn't seem to last even 7 years. It's all so confusing :-(

You do have one of those brick walls.

first husband died after Beryl married second husband

38980/1968
MOIR DONALD ARTHUR
father WILLIAM mother CAROLINE
ST LEONARDS

so there must have been a divorce.

birth just for confirmation
23106/1908
MOIR DONALD A
father WILLIAM mother CAROLINE M
BURWOOD

I don't suppose there is the least chance of tracking down divorce papers ...

... but actually, they seem to exist

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/court-records/index-to-divorce-case-papers

omg, they really do!

http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\1181205

their divorce was in 1944 and you can view the records on site in Sydney -- or order a copy on line for 30 dollars

what I wondered was whether there was any chance the grounds would show a co-respondent ... or just any insight into Beryl's life

electoral roll 1963

Name: James Edward William Simpson
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1963
Subdistrict: Parramatta North
State: New South Wales
District: Parramatta
Country: Australia

4 Grose Street, labourer ... and no other Simpson at that address

that kind of suggests that it was the first election he was eligible to vote

and your mum only appears in 1977 and 1980!

was trying to find them together on the electoral roll to check his name ...

can't even find your mum by first names alone before 1977
(actual spelling is Edwyna Marjorie, I'd found her death notice at the Ryerson index)

so your mum and dad were not on the electoral roll the whole time they were together?! - 1958, 1963, 1968, 1972

were you in Parramatta during that period?

do you suppose ............. ?

Name: Beryl Lorna Simpson
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1943
Subdistrict: Longreach
State: Queensland
District: Kennedy
Country: Australia

address Central Hotel, Longreach,
also there: George Simpson, insurance inspector


she also appears in subsequent years (if the same person)

Name: Beryl Lorna Simpson
Residence: 1949 - Cabramatta, Werriwa, New South Wales, Australia
no George

Name: Beryl Lorna Simpson
Residence: 1954 - Cabramatta, Werriwa, New South Wales, Australia
no George

Name: Beryl Lorna Simpson
Residence: 1958 - Cabramatta, Werriwa, New South Wales, Australia
no George

in those later years she is at 254 Cabramatta Rd and is a supervisor


Name: George Simpson
Residence: 1930 - Longreach, Kennedy, Queensland, Australia
occupation drover

Name: George Simpson
Residence: 1937 - Longreach, Kennedy, Queensland, Australia
with William Simpson, carpenter


do any of those facts sound like a match for Beryl?

there are of course multiple deaths for the name George Simpson in both NSW and QLD in the period 1943-1949

Name: George David Childs
Residence: 1958 - Liverpool, Werriwa, New South Wales, Australia

also in 1943, 1949, 1954

Name: George David Childs
Residence: 1963 - Ingleburn, Macarthur, New South Wales, Australia
refrigeration engineer on Cumberland Rd
with Beryl Lorna, home duties

(these details are all from Ancestry's indexes and images)

in 1958 he was in Liverpool, Werriwa
and the Beryl Simpson above was in Cabramatta, Werriwa
are they close?

Did Beryl marry George Childs as Moir or Simpson?
oh no right she married as Heckenberg indicating the divorce from Moir

so she could have been married to Simpson and divorced from him too ... in the space between 1944 and 1960

no marriage to Simpson found in QLD or NSW though

OMG, you are an angel!!! Mum always said Dad insisted he was born in Longreach! I'm on Ancestry and didn't find these, a novice I suppose! There must have been a reason they went there, I don't think she would have gone alone. Yes, Liverpool is very close to Cabramatta!
I didn't know that Mum ever voted until at least the 80's, I remember talking about how much she could be fined!
Yes to Parramatta, we did move around a lot, Dad didn't have a real trade. I Know we lived in Parramatta, Horsley Park, Smithfield.
I will try for the divorce papers, just for any information.
My Mum did spell her name with a y as in Edwyna but she was born and married Edwina, she just didn't like it.
This is so much to take in, I need to re read all you messages. Thank you soooo much for helping me, you are so kind! My brothers and sister will be just as thankful.

How exciting to have all this new info, so pleased for you Sandra, what a marvelous job you have done Joonie C......

Misty x

thanks you two, and it looks like we're getting closer anyway :-D

now let's see, if we assume that George Simpson was from Longreach (since he was there for years before Beryl was with him ... Beryl would have been eligible to vote after 1935 and first appears there in 1943) ...


Simpsons on the electoral roll in Kennedy Longreach after 1900

pre 1920 ... there are women on the list in the early 1900s, so fortunately for us women had the vote

Robert Simpson
Holierl(?) Simpson ... no, mistranscription; it's Robert
he's on Galah St and then Longreach reserve and he's a cook; no one else with him

starting in 1925 to the 1930s

Charles Simpson, Cramsie, labourer
Thomas Mason Simpson, railway construction (must mean it was railway worker housing), labourer
Alexander Chapman Simpson, Whitehill, jackeroo

1937 (George and William are at the Central Hotel)

no other Simpsons

1943 (the year Beryl and George were in the Central Hotel)

Arthur Cornelius Simpson, shed hand, and Elsie May Simpson, home duties, Galah St
William Simpson, Plover St, carpenter
Douglas John Simpson, Quali St, newspaper reporter

in later years up to 1960s

Edward Thomas and Anne, Thrush Rd, he's a builder
William and Jean Eliza, 178 Galah St, he's a carpenter (so the same as the one earlier at the Central Hotel where George was)
Gordon Kenneth and Annie Ross, Strathdarr, he's a stud manager

that's the lot up to the later 1970s

1977 and 1980 maybe interesting

William James Simpson and Olive Beryl Simpson on Galah St, him a plnt op and then labourer and her a cook then domestic


what I was hoping was to find George Simpson's parents or siblings in the same place as him

I think there was probably too much mobility to be able to do that

but it does seem likely that William in the early years was his brother


searched trees for Simpson born Longreach

you and another member (I assume you're connected) have James Simpson 1937 Longreach in your trees (something else you didn't tell us?! - but coming to it independently via research is a good thing too) ... but you have it as Longreach NSW ... that would be quite a coincidence, so we're thinking your dad must really have meant QLD, or just not known it was really QLD (if it was)?

someone else has George Simpson 1919 Longreach

for some reason, that person shows as somebody I've had PM contact with ... and argh, it's a message about a thread that I have no reference for ... over a year ago ... google found it and it's about a different surname

there is also someone who has a 1950 birth in Longreach in his tree, that person could be the tree owner

I would contact that person and the person who has George 1919.

There is also a Simpson household in Longreach QLD in the white pages today.

Beryl seems to have gone to Qld with her first husband Donald Arthur Moir

1930, Donald is in Tamworth, a racquet stringer

1931, Donald is in Liverpool, a sports dealer (on same street, no house numbers shown, are Andrew Moir, a foreman, and Stella Annie, home duties)

1933, Donald is in Parramatta, a sports dealer, no one else shown
(Beryl would have been just too young to vote)

1937, Donald Arthur Moir, sports dealer, is enumerated twice in Qld
- Cliff's, Caroline St, Paddington
- 13 Herston Rd, Kelvin Grove
I wonder whether the first is a business address
(edit, actually maybe more likely the second, it's at a busy intersection and is now the Kelvin Grove Takeaway)

(Beryl should be on a voter's list in 1937 but is not shown at either address of Donald's or anywhere else - this is around when James would have been born, but Beryl does not appear with either Donald Moir or George Simpson, or anywhere else ... no likely candidate even by her given names with any surname)

I don't see Donald after 1937


for some flesh on the bones, you can see the Central Hotel in Longreach at google maps

http://www.gdaypubs.com.au/QLD/longreach/49064/former-central-hotel.html

it recently became the Cobb & Co Stockist and Tea Room so you can match the photo of the Central Hotel here

http://publocation.com.au/pubs/qld/longreach/central-hotel

to the streetview for 126 Eagle St, Longreach QLD

this should work for the map streetview

http://tinyurl.com/nyk4ctl


btw, George David Childs' first wife Irene Phyllis Childs also remarried in 1960, so they must have divorced as well (they are living separately by 1954 on the electoral roll) but there is no divorce record shown in the index.