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Thanks for this I will go and get the certificate and hopefully it will be correct once again many thanks Cathy

Disregarding all that stuff I posted about a possible Alfred Smith, who is probably a red herring -

there's this possible 1917 birth. Merthyr Tydfil reg district covers Bargoed:

Births Jun 1917 (>99%)
Smith John T Williams Merthyr T. 11a 1344

you found the correct marriage.john thomas smith was 23 in 1940 and the witnesses were M A Andrews and C R Smith i have this marriage certificate many thanks cathy

Depending on when John was born, could this perhaps be his father?
[EDIT: Only huge flaw is that I don't see any birth for a John with mms Parsonage!]


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Alfred Smith
Name: Alfred Smith
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1870
Registration district: Wrexham
Inferred County: Denbighshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 325



1871 Wales Census about Alfred Smith
Name: Alfred Smith
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry Smith
Mother's name: Elizabeth Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Gwersyllt, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Gwersyllt
Ecclesiastical parish: Gwersyllt
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Wrexham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7a
Household schedule number: 86
Piece: 5654
Folio: 107
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Smith 28
Elizabeth Smith 24
Alfred Smith 1



1881 Wales Census about Alfred Smith
Name: Alfred Smith
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry Smith
Mother's name: Elizabeth Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Gwersyllt, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Gresford - Gwersyllt
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street address: Upper Road
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Ruabon
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5517
Folio: 118
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Smith 38
Elizabeth Smith 34
Alfred Smith 11
Mary Elizth. Smith 8
James Smith 6
Fredrick Smith 4
Daniel Smith 1




1891 Wales Census about Alfred Smith
Name: Alfred Smith
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry Smith
Mother's name: Elizabeth Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Gwersyllt, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Gwersyllt
Ecclesiastical parish: Gwersyllt
Town: Wheatsheaf
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Wrexham
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4617
Folio: 21
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Smith 48
Elizabeth Smith 44
Alfred Smith 21 coal miner <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
James Smith 16
Frederick Smith 14
Daniel Smith 11
Fanny Smith 8
Esther A Smith 5
Arthur H Smith 3



Marriages Mar 1892 (>99%)
Parsonage Sarah Elizabeth Wrexham 11b 331
Smith Alfred Wrexham 11b 331


1901 Wales Census about Alfred Smith
Name: Alfred Smith
Age in 1901: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Eliz Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Gwersyllt, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Gwersyllt
Ecclesiastical parish: Gwersyllt Holy Trinity
Town: Summerhill
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Wrexham
Sub-registration district: Wrexham
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 68
Piece: 5222
Folio: 19
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Smith 31 - coal miner hewer <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sarah Eliz Smith 28
Lily Smith 7
Thomas Hy Smith 6
Charles Smith 3
Marggie Smith 1


1911 Wales Census about Alfred Smith
Name: Alfred Smith
Age in 1911: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Gwersyllt
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street address: 1 Chestnut Terrace Gwersyllt
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coal Miner (Hewer) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: Wrexham
Registration District Number: 621
Sub-registration district: Wrexham
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household schedule number: 197
Piece: 34050
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Smith 41
Gwenie Smith 1
Sarch Elizabeth Smith 38
Thomas Henry Smith 16
Charlie Smith 12
Albert Smith 9
Maggie Smith 11
Arnold Stanley Smith 6
Sarch Elizabeth Smith 5
Arthur Smith 4

Is this the marriage?


England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005
about Doiran R Andrews Name:Doiran R Andrews
Spouse Name:John T Smith
Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1940
Registration district:Cardiff
Inferred County:Glamorganshire
Volume Number:11a
Page Number:1069

How old was John at the time of marriage and who were the witnesses?

My father doesn't remember who his nan was. he thinks alfred may have been born in wrexham? and we think john thomas may have been born in bargoed? but we're not certain, it certainly is a big brick wall

Hi Catherine.
Can you tell us who John's mother was? If not, when and where was he born?
It might help in the first instance to locate marriage for his parents.
Jan

my great grandfather was alfred smith, his son john thomas smith married in 1940 and on the marriage certificate his son has said he is a retired coal hewer (underground). I have hit a brick wall as i can't find any info on alfred i know he was living in 101 fairwater grove east cardiff in 1940. can anyone help me break this wall down. many thanks cathy