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Is this Alice birth?


Births Jun 1876
Kybert Alice Maud Camberwell 1d 84


1891 census
1891 census transcription details for: 4, Godman Road, Camberwell, Peckham

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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 476
Folio: 106
Page: 44
Reg. District: Camberwell
Sub District: Peckham
Parish: Camberwell
Enum. District: 18
Ecclesiastical District: St Mary
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 4, Godman Road, Camberwell, Peckham
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
AUSTIN, William G Head M 35 1856 Furniture Designer And Draughtsman
Brierly Hill, Staffordshire
AUSTIN, Mary Wife Married F 35 1856
Birmingham, Warwickshire
AUSTIN, Francis S Son M 7 1884
Vauxhall, London
AUSTIN, Mary M Daughter F 5 1886
Birmingham, Warwickshire
AUSTIN, Herbert S Son M 4 1887
Reading, Berkshire
AUSTIN, George W Son M 0 (1M) 1891
Peckham, London
KYBERT, Alice M Daughter Single F 14 1877 General Servant
Peckham, London

Hubbies are important.

I keep thinking about how the names coming down the Turner lines and keep confusing.

Johannah in the household in 1911 is aged 2 years , but my Johanna (h) was born 1880. It is possible that this family are related. In our family we have a sister to Amy Turner (formerly Noble) who has a baby within a couple of years of Amy Tuner and calls her Amy (Turner) very difficult to trce which is correct without certificates.

By the way thanks for the info on certificates. I always purchase them from govt.UK, but thanks it is important to know these things.

Better go and do something.

Thank you Shirley.

Sappho.

Again thanks for Alice Maud Kybert - she is a servant living in Peckham. Do you think she is adopted as they have her as daughter, but she is not an AUSTIN.

Have I got this wrong?

Yes that has me puzzled looks like she may have been adopted .

It may help to see who she puts as her dad on the marriage cert.

Still trying to trace Thomas on the census's


EDIT am thinking its an enumerator error putting her as daughter . more likely she is their live in domestic servant. The head of house has a qualified occupation

Looks like William G marriage ties with his wife being born in Birmingham

Marriages Mar 1883
Austin William George Birmingham 6d 67
Sleigh Mary Birmingham 6d 67


Not seeing where the Kybert comes in

Thomas on the 1891 census

1891 census transcription details for: 17, Clarendon Street, St George The Martyr Southwark, Southwark

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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 344
Folio: 137
Page: 5
Reg. District: St Saviour Southwark
Sub District: Kent Road
Parish: St George the Martyr Southwark
Enum. District: 6
Ecclesiastical District: St Stephens
City/Municipal Borough: Southwark
Address: 17, Clarendon Street, St George The Martyr Southwark, Southwark
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
TURNER, William Head Married M 30 1861 Labourer
London
TURNER, Amelia Wife Married F 28 1863
London
TURNER, Hannah Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar
St George Southwark
TURNER, Thomas Son M 6 1885 Scholar
St George Southwark
TURNER, Louise Daughter F 0 (8M) 1891
St George Southwark


1901 that you have already seen
1901 census transcription details for: 3, Hunter Buildings B Block, Little Hunter Street, St George The Martyr Southwark

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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 364
Folio: 33
Page: 19
Reg. District: St Saviour Southwark
Sub District: Kent Road
Parish: St George the Martyr Southwark
Enum. District: 8
Ecclesiastical District: St Stephens Southwark
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 3, Hunter Buildings B Block, Little Hunter Street, St George The Martyr Southwark
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
TURNER, William Head Married M 41 1860 Labourer Brick Seth
Borough
TURNER, Amy Wife Married F 40 1861
Borough
TURNER, Jemima Daughter Single F 20 1881 Paper Sorter
Borough
TURNER, Thomas Son Single M 16 1885 Labourer Brick Seth
Borough
TURNER, William Son Single M 8 1893
Borough
TURNER, Amy Daughter Single F 6 1895
Borough


both William and Thomas are labourers in a Brick Yard

????

1911 census transcription details for: H M Prison-Brixton, BRIXTON PRISON

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National Archive Reference:
RG14PN2143 RD25 SD5 ED45 SN1
Reg. District: Lambeth
Sub District: Norwood
Parish: Lambeth
Enum. District: 45
Address: Brixton Hill S W
County: London
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
TURNER, William Prisoner Single M 17 1894 Newsvendor London Bermondsey


Bermondsey is near Southwark anf was in the St Olave Southwark reg area at one time

Just not picking up Thomas in 1911 other than the one already posted

OH WOW!!
Ancestry have the parish register of the marriage cert and Thomsa is listed as a Hotel Servant so that is them on the 1911 posted

His dad is William Turner a pipe make ,deceased

her dad is George Henry Kybert a baker ,deceased

They give the same address as Falstaff Yard which is where they are on that 1911 census again

She is 31 he is 28


Name: Thomas Turner
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Age: 28
Spouse Name: Alice Maud Kybert
Spouse Age: 31
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 21 Apr 1912
Parish: Southwark St Stephen
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: William Turner
Register Type: Parish Register


If you PM me your email address I will download it and send it to you, saves buying a copy and this is signed in their handwriting

Alice on the 1881 census
1881 census transcription details for: 209, (Bakers Shop), St Georges Rd, Camberwell


National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 698
Folio: 19
Page: 31
Reg. District: Camberwell
Sub District: St George
Parish: Camberwell
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 209, (Bakers Shop), St Georges Rd, Camberwell
County: London, Surrey
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
KYBERT, Henry Head Married M 35 1846 Master Baker
Paddington, Middlesex
KYBERT, Sarah E Wife Married F 33 1848
Buntingford, Hertfordshire
KYBERT, Louisa M Daughter Single F 14 1867
Ware, Hertfordshire
KYBERT, Henry J Son Single M 12 1869 Scholar
Ware, Hertfordshire
KYBERT, Albert Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Buntingford, Hertfordshire
KYBERT, Pricilla E Daughter Single F 8 1873 Scholar
Camberwell, Surrey
KYBERT, Frances C Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar
Camberwell, Surrey
KYBERT, Alice M Daughter Single F 4 1877 Scholar
Camberwell, Surrey
KYBERT, Kate Daughter Single F 2 1879
Camberwell, Surrey
KYBERT, Rosa Daughter Single F 1 1880
Camberwell, Surrey


Father is a master baker and they are living over the Bakers Shop

possibly
Deaths Jun 1897
Kybert Henry George 53 Islington 1b 211


Deaths Dec 1900
Kybert Sarah 52 Camberwell 1d 501

one of alice's sisters baptism
Name: Frances Charlotte Kybert
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 5 Apr 1874
Father's Name: Henry George Kybert
Mother's Name: Sarah Elizabeth Kybert
Parish or Poor Law Union: Camberwell St George
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

dob 1.3.1874 home address 209 St Georges Road fathers occ Baker

Name: Albert Kybert
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 10 Nov 1872
Father's Name: Henry George Kybert
Mother's Name: Sarah Elizabeth Kybert
Parish or Poor Law Union: Camberwell St George
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Register
dob 4.10.1870

Name: Priscella Elizabeth Kybert
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 10 Nov 1872
Father's Name: Henry George Kybert
Mother's Name: Sarah Elizabeth Kybert
Parish or Poor Law Union: Camberwell St George
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

dob 21.10.1872 home address 209 St Georges Road fathers occ Baker

so a double christening

Name: Thomas Turner
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 31 Mar 1886
Father's Name: William Turner
Mother's Name: Amy Turner
Parish or Poor Law Union: Saint Stephen, Southwark
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

dob 19.10.1885 home address 17 Clarendon Street fathers occ Pipe maker

double christening

Name: Joanna Turner
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 31 Mar 1886
Father's Name: William Turner
Mother's Name: Amy Turner
Parish or Poor Law Union: Saint Stephen, Southwark
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

dob 4.12.1880



Name: Jane Matilda Turner
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 25 Apr 1888
Father's Name: William Turner
Mother's Name: Amy Turner
Parish or Poor Law Union: Saint Stephen, Southwark
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

dob 2.4.1888 same home address father occ pipe maker

OMGosh - We did not know of Jane. Amy would have been 7 yrs when she was born. The gaps are surprising. I know my grandmother Johanna was the eldest; it just goes to show how little we really know.

As you can see I have come back to this as I have been trying to sort our my father's side - Russia and Riga - it's not easy.

The Clay Pipe maker is the correct occupation of the father and it is interesting that Alice Kybert seems to have come from a Baker family. You really are helping me - thank you so much.

So coming forward I will now send for the certificate for Thomas Turner and maybe others. Will sort out and then send for several if this proves necessary.

My grandmother was the first to go to school and she really did benefit from her education. I have her school attendance record - pretty tatty but its all there.

So now I shall look for William's marriage (if he married) and concentrate on Jane Matilda. Gosh how one thing leads to another.

Its a dreadful day here today - who said it was Spring. I do hope we are not going to follow UK with a bad summer.


Sappho

Copy of marriage cert sent.

If you would like the actual parish baptism records too let me know. I can download them too

Thank you - have opened that it's great and thank you so much for sharing it with me. Any records would be appreciated if its not too much trouble.

I do hope I can do the same for you with regard information. This really does get exciting when we have a hit.

Thank you.

Sappho

Just confirming things a bit here.

My family in 1901 Census are:
1901 census transcription details for: 3, Hunter Buildings B Block, Little Hunter Street, St George The Martyr Southwark

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 364
Folio: 33
Page: 19
Reg. District: St Saviour Southwark
Sub District: Kent Road
Parish: St George the Martyr Southwark
Enum. District: 8
Ecclesiastical District: St Stephens Southwark
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 3, Hunter Buildings B Block, Little Hunter Street, St George The Martyr Southwark
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
TURNER, William Head Married M 41 1860 Labourer Brick Seth
Borough
TURNER, Amy Wife Married F 40 1861
Borough
TURNER, Jemima Daughter Single F 20 1881 Paper Sorter
Borough
TURNER, Thomas Son Single M 16 1885 Labourer Brick Seth
Borough
TURNER, William Son Single M 8 1893
Borough
TURNER, Amy Daughter Single F 6 1895
Borough


And unlikely that the one mentioned above this are my family as Johanna (h) called Jemima in this listing is my grandmother.

So then they had Jane Matilda - no-one has mentioned Jane not even my second cousin in Australia so I think we have a new find.

Thanks to Shirley for putting in the time to look this 1911 Census out for my family.

Now still wanting to come forward on Thomas Turner born 1911 - do you think he was married to Eva J M Lopez in 1936? It shows it as being Thomas F Turner.

Sappho

This looks like Jane on the 1891 census
Name: Jane Turner
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Walworth, London, England
Civil parish: St George the Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephan
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:40 Etham or Eltham Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Kent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 344
Folio: 131
Page Number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
John Turner 39 occ bricklayers labourer
Alice Turner 39 blind !
James J Turner 15 son
Jane Turner 2 niece

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 344; Folio: 131; Page: 40; GSU roll: 6095454.


John could be a brother of William.



edit

Name: Jane Matilda Turner
Age in 1911: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Walworth, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Sawston
County/Island: Cambridgeshire
Country: England
Street Address: Post Office, High Street, Sawston, Cambs
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: General Servant Domestic
Registration district: Linton
Registration District Number: 182
Sub-registration district: Duxford
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 52
Piece: 9143
Household Members:
Name Age
Abram Coulthard 41 occ Pharmacist
Elizabeth Coulthard 39
Hilda Hart Coulthard 3
Jane Matilda Turner 22

Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 9143; Schedule Number: 52; .
Source Information:

I wonder
Marriages Dec 1873
SHIELD Alice Ann St. Olave 1d 444
Turner John Robert St.Olave 1d 444