General Chat

I think most people being critical of his actions is from his lucid statement, into this tragic case,,,,,,,,,**,that the man who did this isnt the man you see today***,,,,,,,,,has he recovered?..

People do these actions all over the world daily,,,,,,,,,but we never hear of them,,,,plus there are countless actions where people have gone into schools /workplaces on a killing rampage,why? only people fully trained in this field may have a form of answer,,,,,,,,,,,

But I hope this dont open any gates for *sound* minded people to use in their defence..

I have no idea if he was being treated but would imagine he was as there was serious mental illness within his family - I know how hard it would be for people to forgive, but the human brain is a very delicate piece of equipment indeed. By the way, on the site I got the above definition of psychosis from, there are loads of items regarding the use of cannabis being the cause of psychosis and people are still saying it's a harmless drug. Different topic I know, but just thought I'd mention it.

Thanks for that, Carol.

Gwynne

so was he being treated?

I still cant begin to forgive his actions on His Medical Condition,Sorry:-(

psychosis /psy·cho·sis/ (si-ko´sis) pl. psycho´ses any major mental disorder of organic or emotional origin marked by derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality, with delusions and hallucinations and often with incoherent speech, disorganized and agitated behavior, or illusions. Cf. neurosis

I agree with you Roxanne of all violent crimes, those where a parent takes the lives of his or her children are the most baffling. Most parents would die to protect their child. So for a mother or father to look at their son or daughter, perhaps hear their cries, and see their uncomprehending faces, and kill them, is almost too abhorrent to think about. They must have snapped, lost their mind in a moment of madness or insanity, is the most common and convenient explanation.
'The profile of a family annihilator is a middle-aged man, a good provider who would appear to neighbours to be a dedicated husband and a devoted father,'. 'He quite often tends to be quite isolated. He is often profoundly dedicated to his family, but has few friends of his own or a support system out with the family. He will have suffered some prolonged frustration and feelings of inadequacy, but then suffers some catastrophic loss. It is usually financial or the loss of a relationship. He doesn't hate his children, but he often hates his wife and blames her for his miserable life. He feels an overwhelming sense of his own powerlessness. He wants to execute revenge and the motive is almost always to "get even".'In the majority of cases, if the perpetrator fails in his own suicide, they almost always plead some form of insanity.

There are certain people the killer blames for his problems If a friend came along, he wouldn't kill him or her. He kills his children to get even with his wife because he blames her and he hates her. The killer feels he has lost control. Annihilating his family is a way of regaining control.

'Most men and woman go through life experiencing distressing circumstances such as relationship breakdowns or financial problems, and they have developed strategies to deal with them. Most people, especially women, tend to speak to their friends, perhaps go and get drunk, sometimes chop the sleeves off their partner's suits or destroy his books or favourite CDs.

'But there are people, less functional people, who have not developed those coping skills. They have very low self-esteem. They are almost always very controlling and are less able to handle rejection. They cannot talk about it - it is as if they have failed - and they simply cannot accept it. They feel utterly humiliated and respond with the ultimate act of revenge - if I can't have you, no one can. They know that she will suffer for the rest of her life if he kills the children and leaves her alive.'

"You do not take an Innocents life,If you want to kill yourself then fine,but you do not take others with you."

it wasn't actually depression though Roxanne, it was a psychosis which is entirely different - depression is in a field of it's own

I can appreciate that depression is a terrible thing and needs the best possible care.
but......... I can not forgive a person for taking their child with them, even In depression you have some control, I believe this!
And yes I have had experience with depression.

You do not take an Innocents life,If you want to kill yourself then fine,but you do not take others with you.

I was given an address for a site which might help me by my pychologist, about depression. If anyone wants it please pm me. I haven't had time to look at it yet so can't say if it's good or not xx

n

Hi Gwynne - I saw those remarks, and like you say, she is not to blame - I saw all the other appalling remarks about him too and I was so angry, but perhaps I shouldn't be - it's a difficult one to comprehend but I sincerely hope that when people read some of the postings on this thread they will rethink their ideas and hopefully have a better understanding of how devastating mental illness can be

Ann X

Hi Anne,

I've seen remarks on GR and in the press that she "drove him to it", that's why I posted.

She is not to blame in any way for what he did and I wanted to make that point.

Gwynne

I keep nudging this up because I would like as many people as possible to read it and hopefully get some understanding, if only in part, of how ghastly mental illness can be in it's severest form and how we can help by being more compassionate

A well thought out letter Ann.

I, fortunately, have never suffered with depression but members of my family have and I have a good friend who suffers from Bipolar illness (formally manic depression). I agree that mental Health is the poor relation in the NHS and deserves more attention.

I feel for the people who suffer from this debillitating illness and those who live with them and love them. I too have been extremely annoyed at the comments about this poor man, who knows what is round the next corner? Who knows if any of us who do not now suffer depression will suddenly be afflicted by it. I do hope that he will find some sort of peace when he gets treatment. I wonder though if he will finally succeed in going to join his son as soon as he is released from hospital, poor man he is going to be haunted by the knowledge of what he has done for ever.

I hope his wife is able to find peace as well as she leaves for a life in Australia (I think). But what of little Mia? Will she always have flashbacks do you think? will she grow up to be depressive? i do hope she is given treatment as she gets older too. Bless her.

Ann
Glos

Hi Gwynne - don't think for one minute anyone is blaming his wife, I certainly do not and don't think others do either - it's just that we are trying to give the whole picture as to why he got tipped over the edge. After all, his wife was not an expert in mental health matters, not many lay people are, she too will suffer for the rest of her life too. The consequences of his actions are so far reaching for him and for everyone involved with him - including his parents - they must be feeling awful too, they have lost a grandchild and in some ways, a son as well

While sympathising with the father, please let's not slip into blaming his wife for what happened.

She wasn't the one who killed her son and tried to kill her daughter. She spoke up for him in court and said he wasn't in his right mind when it happened.

I don't imagine for a minute she thought he would do what he did and she will be in torment for the rest of her life.

None of us know what led up to the marriage breakdown, but she was not in a relationship with the man she is now married to.

The father said he feels no guilt for what he did because he wasn't in his right mind when he did it.

Both these unfortunate people and the little girl will suffer for the rest of their lives. I hope the press leave them all in peace while they try to come to terms with it.

Gwynne

Ruby Slippers - you have friends on here and compassionate friends at that as you can see - perhps you could "cut and paste" my letter, adjust a bit and send it to your local newspaper

Liz - I do hope you get the help you need, and quickly too - don't let them forget you - keep in their face!! and yes, we all have things in our minds, things we've read about, things we've experienced, tihngs we've seen. How lovely if there was an eraser we could use to wipe them all out, but there isn't. they are there for life and we have to be able to deal with them - some can't and need help, and that help should be there, just as if you had a tumour in your head, thoughts can be just as debilitating

n

Thanks Tina. I know my depression would lift if I could get help for my ocd - it has caused so many problems in my life. People say, why do you hoard, why can't you get rid of things, well if I knew that I would be half way there, stupid twits lol

You have had it hard but I am sure you need feel no guilt, you did what you could for your husband and were both let down by the 'system' which happens all too often sadly.
Take care hon, hugs back to you
Lizxx

Liz, I hope you soon receive the treatment you deserve. I know what it is like to be duck-shoved and get the run around. The medical profession basically turned it's back on us and put my hubby in the "too hard" basket.
Good luck and hugs!!
Tina