General Chat

well done Errol - I think you have conducted this debate admirably and feel we all contributed something valuable to it - I feel quite invigorated now but it won't last long - my bed is calling!! Night night, sweet dreams dear heart XXX

I havent read the ltest page properly yet - but skipping through it - I will go back and read it - I wanted to say that yes Errol it is a debate and not a reason for people to fall out.

I enjoy debates and am usually what I would consider very good at them as I am on the whole an impartial person. However, I feel that I can not remain impartial on this subject and therefore I am not the best person to debate the subject with.

I am not putting down your thread or inviting anyone to fall out x

It shouldn't be forgotten that the BBC 'silencing' Gerry Adams by not letting his voice be heard on tv didn't stop the IRA.
Silencing the BNP - or denying them the right to put forth their pathetic views won't stop them recruiting, but a damn good argument against them may make some people think twice about joining them.

maggie

Certain quasi political parties were accused of the same sort of thing in Northern Ireland for many years and look at the political process there now (and great strides forward). Political parties have ALWAYS used their own forms of indoctrination. As far as the BNP is concerned, there is a certain amount of distancing from the "swastika" era and as a so-called political party they seem to go to great lengths to say they are not racist for racism's sake.
We also need to understand the difference between racism and nationalism - two very different things.

Ann, I think that's probably because a lot of people don't trust themselves not to say something naughty on the subject lol.

Indeed, it is a debate, but why do the students think they can succeed where others have failed, to argue down their vile views.

And Errol, I think the problem is that they also do indoctrinate people in private, that's how the BNP slowly grew in the first place, I remember seeing an undercover report on it years ago at that point they were thought of as a small fascist nuisance with their swasticas etc. Look at them now, holding seats on a council. They've just got more clever about the way in which they spread their filth.

well Errol I've really enjoyed this - I was feeling a bit sleepy and watching Where Eagles Dare so that I now know every syllable so it was a good diversion

I have my own views on that Ann

Correct, Ann. My point is put them on a pedestal that they can be tumbled from if justified.

and another thing says big mouth me - isn't it interesting that there are only about six of us in this discussion when you think how many contribute to these boards?

Maggie well said. That is what debate should be about. Put a point forward and then expect it to be pulled apart if justified.

one clear thing has emerged from this very absorbing discussion is that no one likes 'em!!

Long may it continue. What is the alternative? If people abuse their freedom of speech then there are laws in place to prevent them from going further. If they could not speak publicly then they, potentially, could be speaking in private to small groups and indoctrinating them. It is also important that people speak out without fear of intimidation - what one man sees as poison may be another man's religion.

You are so right Errol, it is an excellent discussion and I feel we have all been very measured in what we have said

Don't forget this is a DEBATE at Oxford - one side puts their point then the other counteracts it - it isn't just the BNP spouting off their drivel with no response!!
They should be allowed to speak and voice their opinions as others with opposite views can then pull their views apart and, hopefully, slam them down!!

maggie

but for how long do you envisage them being allowed to have this freedom of speech? they've been spouting the same poison for years now, we all know what they think and we don't like it. Do you ever see a time when they will be stopped from speaking in public? For how long will they be allowed to carry on? They have abused freedom of speech

Ann I think this is a superb debate with no falling out - exactly what an argument (true sense of the word) should be and I for one am very proud that we are all adult enough to have this conversation.

But freedom of speech must apply to all. If we make the decision to allow some to speak and not others then we are no better. And by allowing all to speak we can make informed decisions.

we all have the right toi our opinions and most of us have very strong feelings on this and I think it's good that we can discuss them, but please let's not fall out with anyone over it - let's agree to disagree

But Errol, we've heard their speeches and right minded people don't like what they say - we've heard their drivel for far longer than that of Hamza - they cause dissention and ill feeling amongst all races and they publicly say things which an individual would be prosecuted for

But this is a debate Maddie. We cannot ignore and not discuss everything we disagree with, surely?