General Chat

I watched a film last night about muslim women having children and telling us that they hoped their sons would die for Allah in suicide bids. One particular woman was married at 13, so she had many sons to offer up. I don't think any western woman could do this, do you? Such a waste of a young child's life.

I am reminded of the kamikaze pilots in WW2

I would rather die myself than have anything happen to my child- this just seems to go against all maternal instincts to protect your children from harm.

Hello Sylvia, Our normal western and humanitarian response is to say "How ghastly!" Certainly how I feel. However, I was very challenged to read in a newspaper analysis just last week of what really lies behind this present intifada, particularly in the Middle East. The view is being expressed so commonly by, say, Palestinians that there is no other way left to them of expressing their anger, frustration and sense of desolation and rejection, than by going to such extreme limits. Makes you stop and really think. After all, 80 years ago RAF byplanes were bombing and machine gunning Iraqis during our so-called protectorate after "freeing" them from Turkish rule. Now, 80 years on, the Anglo-American imperial interests are doing exactly the same. Whatever the explanation, whatever the attempt at justification, the physical and emotional effect is the same! I've been a member of two mainstream Christian churches now in the different parts of the country where I've recently been living, and the first hand information coming back from church members who visit the Holy Land is just the same, and very disturbing too. The Palestinians are a people dispossessed, outcasts in their own country, and rejected by the Western governments in favour of the dominant Israeli state, for reasons with which we can have a lot of sympathy (the Holocaust etc). I have no comment to make on the various politics of national survival at this stage, simply to say that I can understand that people can become so desperate that they are prepared to take extreme measures to say to the world "Look, we deserve to exist as human beings, and not just as beasts of burden and sub-humans to service your geopolitical ambitions." Philip

thank you philip,that was a wonderful post.....bryan.

In this day and age No group of people or nation should live in subjugation or virtual imprisonment. Each should have a place that they can look on as their free homeland. I am appalled by the attitude of the Israelies towards the Palestinians. In history they are the people who fled from the yolk of slavery under Herod. After the second world war and the holocaust the western world encouraged the formation of Israel and eventually they became a strong self contained nation. Unfortunately they also became arrogant bullies that have not learnt the lesson from thir own history. If they restored the borders and stopped their policy of expansionism, then the middle east would be a safer and more peaceful place. I am not anti-jewish and I have a number of jewish friends. Strangely most of them agree with me. Ernest

Thank you Philip. I do wonder how it is all going to end. I feel that Israel is doing a lot of harm at the moment. Yes, of course the Palestinians are a desperate people at the moment. The Israeli wall is far worse than the Berlin Wall! There seems to be two sides of the Koran when you listen to some of the people. Yesterday I heard a woman giving her side of the Koran and her father disagreeing. Maybe they haven't read it properly. I don't know whether Koran is spelt this way in English! Sylvia

I should add, to be fair, that I also visit a number of other websites occasionally that are listed under the Open Directory project. There are a number of Arabic sites, and it's fascinating to read the accounts of young alienated Moslem men in some of the refugee camps etc, some of whom have left the Middle East and/ or converted to Christianity or other religions, and who consequently are able to get into perspective the political brainwashing they were previously subjected to from childhood up. I remember reading the story of one young guy who, from a very early age, made it his mission in life to go out and stone Israeli troops, then graduated into kalashnikovs and bombs etc. He became an extreme of the extremes before starting to question the indoctrination he'd only ever known. The hatred of many young Arabs in these growing up circumstances to Jews and Christians alike is visceral and bitter, and it's fanned up by evil men who prevert the teachings of the Koran to promote potential genocide. We make think that the religious tribes of Northern Ireland need to grow up and get it together, ditto the tribes of the Balkans, but the sheer raw hatred in the Middle East leaves them both standing! I can't say that I'm optimistic of any civilised solution, certainly not in my lifetime, but I'm sure that it's got to include some recognition of the economic rights and interests of the Arab peoples vis a vis western economic interests. (And by that, I don't mean just more oil revenue rolling into the coffers of the Saudis and other fat cat rulers!) Philip

my son and his wife were both born into the church of england,but decided to convert to islam! they are both appalled at the muslim extremists and suicide bombers. that isnt what every muslim person believes in! my son is anti war,anti sadam and anti taliban.they are muslim extremists. my son and his wife are law abiding citizens and are appalled at the goings on in the islamic world! it is a disgrace to the muslim people. the koran teaches you to love and honour your country men,just like the bible. in fact after reading it for myself it is almost identical to the bible. its like every religion,there is good and bad in all of them susie

Kate, Yes, why don't some of the rich Arabs help their own people - this has always been in my mind. All those Saudi Arabians, who also own a lot of property in Britain. Also in Africa, all wanted Independence and got what they wanted and most worse off now than they were under white rule. There are some very rich African men who could quite easily help the poor, but they leave it to us westerners to take pity on them. I remember my African boy who helped me in the house in Africa saying when I left "no madam, I no work for African man". He knew he would be a slave and wouldn't be paid. We treated them not as slaves, but just helps.