General Chat

I think if we think of the fact that children are GIFTS from God (whoever he may be) and not a RIGHT as an indivual then it may explain why some people do not have them. One of my friends is against Adoption, which we all find strange as she is adopted, but her adopted father died when she was 11 and it crushed her world!! Who is to say what is right or wrong but if the medics stopped fiddling with nature we wouldn't have these decisions! Pink (who i repeat is childless and who would love to be a mother but never will be) xx

I've been watching this debate with interest and it's nice to see so many points of view expressed eloquently and reasonably. Another thought came to mind for me after my last comment and in relation to something someone else said - Unfortunately, life isn't a level playing field. In some ways, it's people's and science's efforts to make it so that causes so much misery. Previous debates on 'political correctness' illustrate this too, I think, though I'm not in any way trying to change the subject of this thread. What this woman 'should' have done doesn't matter really - we're all wise with hindsight.

I agree with Valice think the clinic should have thought of that solution as probably the parents were not thinking too clearly. Also think it must be dreadful for her if the eggs are destroyed after all they are a part of her - But again can see both sides Norah

Pity they didn't freeze some of her eggs, unfertilised, to be used at a later date.

On Richard & Judy, the lady involved Vivienne

Lily No one is forcing this man into fatherhood, he had already made that decision when he agreed to create embryos with this lady. Jayvee It's great that you feel like that and I do admire you for it, however not everybody deals with difficult situations in the same way. Just going on personal experience I believe that I would have become embittered by it and I feel desperately sorry for this lady and for Jess as I think it is a down right unfair situation for them to be in. I know life is not fair, but I really can't think of a decent reason for this man to behave in this way. It is cruel.

There are so many issues here....BUT why should the man be forced into fatherhood when he no longer loves the would-be mother? In 1979 (hopefully the Law is now changed), I went into hospital for sterilisation, I had nearly died in pregnancy with my son and had been warned that there was an 80% chance of it happening again. As it was my body at fault, I thought it would be wrong to ask my hubbie to have a vasectomy, in case he had another partner in the future. The night before the op the hospital demanded that I get my husband in to sign a consent form!! I have been so lucky, we have one healthy son, born to parents in their late thirties, I would have loved a daughter too but had to accept that the danger of dying was too great. We ladies can't have everything we want! Lily

Marie - I also had one chance of being a mother and had it snatched away from me but I don't see the point in living an embittered life because of it. I've had a wonderful marriage (so far!), caring family and friends, enough money to get by and good health. I feel well blessed.

jayvee~ i guess that is what makes us all different people. woman have a role in this life, probably the onlyRole that cannot be intercahnged with a man ~ and that is to carry a child. Its a fact that it is a very special thing that only a woman can do ~ and i fail.That does put me behind other women and i can't possibly be on a par with them, much as i hate the feeling, its a fact. Jess x

Jess - whether I had children or not I have always considered myself to be on the same level as the rest of the human race. It's sad that you cannot come to terms with your situation but I'm sure no-one thinks any the less of you as a human being for being unable to reproduce.

Jayvee I have to say I agree with Jess. There was a very distinct possibility that I could have been childless and I don't think I would ever have got over the bitterness I would have felt if my one chance of having a child were snatched from me. Luckily for me I have kids but that doesn't stop me from feeling deeply for others. It is good that you have been able to deal with it and move on but can't you see it from the point of view of others who by not having children feel like they live in a permanent state of loss and bereavement?

jayve, of course childlessness isnt an illness. The result of an illness that leads to the need for IVF (and alike) can be, What IVF does in that case is puts you back on the level of the rest of the human race. i am glad that you have come to terms with you childlessness~ i havent and dont see that i ever will~ and i dont mean that in anyone other way than the way in which it is written. jess

I think that if this lady had felt for one moment that her boyfriend would at any point in the future refuse permission for the embryos to be used, she would have taken a different route, ie she would have had her unfertilised eggs frozen for the future where she would have the final say in what happened to them. He knew this would be her one chance when he agreed to the process. Who would think that somebody who loves you would be likely to let you down like that about something that was obviously so important to her? Especially as at the time she was suffering from the blow of finding out she had cancer and was probably not in a fit state to make a decision like that. Maybe in the future the answer to it will be to freeze both embryos and unfertilized eggs so that another woman doesn't have to be put through what this poor lady has.

'IVF treatment is no different to any other medical treatment. If you need it , you need it.' Can't agree with this statement I'm afraid. Being childless is not an illness.

Something else which has occured to me. If the woman would of been allowed to have her child, what would happen if she died and she has no familt to take the child in. What would happen to the child then?

'She also signed to say that he could change his mind at a later date'. Crumbs Sandra, I didn't realise that. It therefore looks as if she hasn't a leg to stand on, legally? That poor girl, she must be kicking herself now. All my best wishes go to her. x

In a case such as this I don't think that there can ever be a happy ending.

but it okay to deny the inverse to a woman? **not avioding/not repling , i'm going to work until early PM. anyone else been here? tell them how it feels please.

If the judge had ruled in favour of this woman and she bought the child up by herself, what would happen if she lost her job and had to claim child support from the father? We will have to agree to disagree on this. I still stand by the fact that you cannot make this man a father if he has no wish to be.

Most parents start out wanting their child ? (as BOTH of these people in this case did) Yes most do, but also many pregnancies are the result of casual flings, and in lots of the cases, some males (Ill not say men) run a mile once they have got what they wanted. Also some women also run a mile from the men lol ! So no, in my opinion, in a lot of very casual relationships not a lot of people start out wanting their child, be it men or women. Elaine x