General Chat

Its been vey interesting to read everyones opinions, These are the sort of debates I love!! When we can talk about things and respect everyones beliefs, Thanks Lynda for a great debate,I might be tempted to post more In future;-)))

I do Anna:) Always picture God as a white haired old white man lol even though I don't think this is what he/it looks like - but I do manage to picture Jesus as a Jew from the Middle East:) I imagine God as a creative force rather than an omnipotent being - a sort of parent figure that made made us the way we are and gave us free will to do what we want or can with that.

Thanks for replying Joy So am I correct in assuming you visualise God as he was when he was made man - Jesus - who would have been a person of Middle Eastern appearance? When I went to primary school we were given Holy pictures as rewards and Jesus was always depicted as being a fine boned, fair skinned man dressed in flowing robes and having long, wavy, blonde hair and blue eyes which would not have been authentic given his racial characteristics. Mary was also depicted as being fair skinned and blue eyed with soft brown wavy hair. With these images so firmly implanted in my mind as a child, it is hard to imagine anything else. Does anyone else have this problem? Thanks Anna

This thread becomes increasingly interesting with every post. To my mind there is no contradiction between science and a belief in God. I believe that God, who is a God of order, masterminded the rules of science. Anna asked how people see God, and OC says that if God (re. sacrificing his son) had come himself, she would have been more impressed. John Chapter 14 is a favourite passage for me, and so relevant to these questions. Joy xxx

Len You open a window on a world I can only wonder at - thanks for your very accessible explanation of the latest in scientific thought. As I said earlier, if such brilliant minds are still searching for answers, what hope is there for me! I've tried to read Steven Hawking and his string theory and I've tried to get a grip on Quantum mechanics - I will leave it to the scientists! I asked in my earlier post what sort of an image people have of a God? No one has answered me. Believe me, I am not trying to be provocative or vexatious - I am really interested in hearing how people perceive God. You must have some image of him in your mind. Lynda - it is wonderful that we can talk about a subject like this and stay friendly and accepting of everyone's views. Thanks to all for sharing something which is extremely personal. Anna

Consider consciousness: Unfortunately, science recognises it, argues about it; there are lots of books on the subject. They recognise that it exists but have failed to define it except as a brain function. It’s very hard being a scientist. Anything which cannot be weighed or measured really cannot officially be recognised. Moreover, scientists being human, therefore political, competitive and often vindictive would be torn to shreds by their peers should they offer hypotheses without cast-iron proof. Even then, they usually get the thick end of the stick e.g. Galileo, Louis Pasteur, Darwin and others. Roll on quantum mechanics. Quantum Mechanics may sound like the title of a book about cars but actually is a branch of science. About 100 years ago Newtonian ideas, which seemed to explain most physical phenomena very neatly, began to show cracks and 'physics' began to be faced with fundamentals for which there were no adequate theoretical explanations. Enter Einstein and the 'Theory of Relativity'. That seemed hopeful but eventually began to creak under the weight of apparent contradictions then, about 20 years ago the concept of Quantum Mechanics began to dominate. Whereas 'Relativity' was concerned mainly with the physics of massive and fast moving objects, QM describes and seeks to understand physics from the viewpoint of the infinitely small (atoms, electrons, particles etc.). Believe it or not, it is now scientifically acceptable that a particle may be in two places at once! Sceptics please raise your hands. One of the most fundamental concepts of science is energy. A body in motion possesses kinetic energy as a result of the work done by the forces creating the motion. But a force which does work to stretch a spring, for example, does not create motion. Instead, the work is stored up in the spring and is an example of potential energy. A lifted body also possesses potential energy which turns into kinetic energy when the raised object falls. The heat energy contained in a body is the sum of the kinetic and potential energy of the constituent atoms which are vibrating all the time. Heat and motion are obtainable from electrical, magnetic, chemical, atomic, nuclear and other sources and scientists therefore define corresponding forms of energy. The vital point is that all forms of energy are transferable into one another without loss or gain and cannot be lost or destroyed. This is one of the most fundamental laws of science. Since Einstein, it has also been recognised that mass is interchangeable with energy. Is consciousness (id, mind, soul or inner being) a subtle form of energy? Many believe so - in fact this is borne out by it being associated with a chemical/electrical activity in the brain so it follows, that when the body dies, consciousness cannot be lost but, to obey the laws of physics, must be transmuted into another form of energy …..Spirit? len

Perhaps Ann, others are right there maybe a life after, maybe we don't just die, it's been really interesting reading everyones views, and this thread has stayed friendly, now thats a miracle in itself :))))

Sorry Dickens, although I respect your obviously sincerely held beliefs, I cannot share them. What kind of God sacrifices his SON?? Which one of us would willingly put our own child through such torture? Now, if God had come HIMSELF, then I might be more impressed. And of course, there are the suppressed Gospels, and historic, eye-witness accounts, which tell us that Christ did not die on the Cross...I dont want to get into all that Holy Grail twaddle, but there IS historic proof that something was 'going on' at the time of Christ's supposed crucifixion. The so-called Gnostic Gospels do not record Christ as dying on the Cross and those Gospels were suppressed by the Roman Church for nearly 17 centuries. I dont have a problem with the concept of God, but I have a serious problem with Man's interpretation of God's wishes, as preached to us by organised religion. Religion has caused more war and death than anything else ever devised by man. OC

But if God made us, why not make us happy robots, why give us doubts? If I were making the world think I'd do it differently than God did, but maybe God's a man :))

Hi Denise I have a fairly strong faith myself and am C of E but don't seem to see things as the other christians on this thread do:) I think everyone goes to what I see as heaven, regardless of religion, belief or denomination - and as far as different religions go, they are all worshipping different versions of the same God. But the God that I believe isn't going to say well I know Ethel lived a good life, was kind and caring and never hurt a soul but I'm not giving her eternal life because she didn't get my message while she was alive:)

Hey Lynda! Imagine this choice: a robot who followed you, obeyed you & never argued with the other robots OR a friend who got to know you, grew to love & trust you & chose of their own free will to spend their lives with you??? That's why , I believe, God gave us the right to choose to follow Him or to ignore Him! Of course he knows which is best for us, and could force us, but where's the love & relationship in that? Denise

Hi Roxanne, I can see now that David asked about people who lived before Jesus...sorry I didn't address that bit! The Old Testament tells us that God tried Plan A before he tried the ultimate sacrifice! He gave the Jews, God's people, the Law to try to keep... but could they manage it? Not likely! And neither does humanity today. But God wasn't prepared to give up on his creation... so he sent Jesus to take the rap in our place. As far as the 'good people' thing, it doesn't matter how hard we try, we could never be good enough to match up to God's holy & perfect standards...so in order to satisfy his love, but also his justice, God has arranged a way for us to be made 'holy & blameless in his sight' by accepting Jesus as our saviour! If this sounds like a load of twaddle to you, that's exactly how I felt when someone told me when I was a teenager- it seemed just to simple to be true! Churches & 'religion' complicate this simple truth so often, but my experience now assures me of what I chose to believe by faith! D

I've always wondered why God, if there is one, didn't just make us with an inbuilt faith, would of made all our lives simpler, we'd all get on because we'd all believe the same thing, cutting out all the wars and fighting. But that's too simple I expect :)) Lynda

Denise,I respect your faith, I really do,but you havent really answered the Question. Jesus was a jew, prior to his death Christianity did not exist,does that mean that all those people before christianity will be damed,I dont think so! You do not have to be a christian to be a good person, I know people of many faiths who are good people who do great work ,I also know plenty of people who say they are good people and arent,I think God knows who they are, the tongue can lie the heart can not.

Lynda,If you do, let me know:-))

Dear David & others who have asked questions, I'm pretty sure no-one said salvation & eternal life comes through the Church of England! Sadly various denominations over the centuries have twisted & interpreted the Bible in different ways & many types of church have become lukewarm & wishy-washy in their beliefs & worship. Leaving this aside, Christians believe that God created us to have a relationship with Him, but because we are essentially selfish & choose to do the wrong thing, we can never be 'good enough' to please him & spend eternity with him. But, because of his love for each of us, God sent his only son to die the most painful death ever invented, and in doing so to pay the price we should deserve. So a ransom has been paid to set us free! All we need to do is accept that free gift; no-one is excluded from this offer, but many choose to exclude themselves, by choosing their own way. If there had been an easier or better way, don't you think God would have worked that out- and spared his son that terrible suffering? Denise

I've never thought of it like that David, be interesting to see others views. OC you obviously have the same views on Doris as I have. Roxanne i will be coming to Benalmadina in September, maybe I'll see you there, I wont swear though :)))

I too think Doris Stokes was a wicked fraud. I saw her on TV once, saying 'I have a little blonde girl here, her hair is in bunches...' considering that 90% of little girls had their hair in bunches at the time, I wasnt impressed. Of course, some poor bereaved mother thought it was her child. I simply cannot believe that the Bible is the Word of God. It isnt - God has never written anything down, as far as I am aware! The Bible is the Word of Man, and a very selective, twisted word it is too. The Bible was a collection of religious works, carefully selected by the Roman Church in the 3rd century, and more was left out than was included. The Bible was copied by hand for many centuries, and anyone who has spent even five minutes on Ancestry, can see how easily mistakes could creep in. After all, if you had spent three weeks beautifully illuminating a page of the Bible, you are hardly likely to rip it up and start again just because you mistranslated a word. If I have any religious beliefs at all, they are my own. Like Len, I believe we are part of a massive cosmic consciousness, and that we are all here to learn lessons - if we do not, then we have to come back again until we do. I can, just about, believe that some Superior Power created this Cosmic Consciousness, but whoever that power is, he does not hand out punishments, nor exclude certain people from some exclusive society in the sky, nor does he wish us to give him false praise - he is impassive. OC

Can I just ask those who think the only way to heaven is through Jesus and the Church of England, what happened to all the people who lived before Jesus and all those who lived before the creation of the Church of England? I'm not being facetious - I'm genuinely interested in your opinons.

Lynda,Buddhist swear too!!lol We have the most beautiful'Stuppa' here(Buddhist temple) In Benalmadena, Next time you visit your friend there you should go its really peaceful,I go there at least once a week!