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What do you believe (formerly non Believers)
Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
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DeeDickens | Report | 22 Jun 2006 08:15 |
Morning all! Notice you've been discussing translations & interpretation of the Bible. Yes, I agree there are many translations, but they have not all progressed on from each other, like a big game of chinese whispers. The NIV for instance was painstakingly constructed in recent times form the oldest manuscripts available, and is said by many to be the most accurate version, faithful to the primary sources. Regarding the different things people understand when reading Scripture- as long as words & phrases are not lifted completely out of context, this different interpretation is often a positive thing! God speaks to us through his inspired Word, speaking to our hearts & spirits, and the truth is confirmed & illuminated by the Holy Spirit within those who believe. So we each take on board God's word to us individually. Sadly some churches/people twist little chunks of scripture to fit their own ends, rather than letting God speak to them through His Word. Denise |
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Unknown | Report | 22 Jun 2006 07:58 |
Davo Joe's right about the Bible being translated and interpreted in many different ways - it's a fact that can't be denied not hearsay and gossip. Ten of us can read a chapter and find different interpretations - it's one of the reasons there are so many different denominations. |
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Joy | Report | 22 Jun 2006 02:02 |
Gypsy Joe, you've raised some good questions. If today is anything to go by people will come back on here tomorrow with lots of interesting replies/thoughts that I'll be looking forward to reading. O C, I was fascinated to read yours and your daughter's experiences and everyone else's posts. Thanks again to Lynda for starting this thread that has got so many of us thinking and sharing our beliefs and questions and experiences in such a friendly way. 'Night all. God bless, sleep well. Joy xx |
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David | Report | 22 Jun 2006 01:53 |
Gypsyjoe There's too many questions about christ etc that really don't make sense no matter how people try to explain them. 1. If we all came from Adam and Eve then why is there so many different colours, races, languages etc ans. Genesis hapter 11 verse 6 “And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” They separated into families and the families eventually developed different traits. 2. And how did Eve come from Adams Rib, like really you have an Adult male and and Adult woman appears from him. Ans. I don’t know, but then I don’t have to. 3. Then there's the incest thing from what would have to have been interbreading to increase the population. so in turn then there should be all sorts of physical defects. Ans. These defect wouldn’t have appeared at first, as the DNA of Adam and Eve would have been perfect, 4. There was never any body found for Jesus when he eventually did die, so does that mean he's still physically walking around. Ans. Acts chapter 1 verse 9 “And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.” 5. People have been known to be able to lower their heart rates to aid in healing themselves and in those days they wouldn't really have been able to tell if someone was really dead or not. Ans. Jesus died and was buried and lay in the tomb for three days and three nights, and after three days and nights was raised from the dead. Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth 6. In a lot of the Arab nations Jesus is a popular name even today. Just like John in our family trees. Answer. What is your point? Jesus is just a form of the Jewish name Joshua. 7. Everytime the bible has been translated and updated it's been the interpretation of the readers/writers that is recorded. Just like any book or document we read it's your own interpretation. Answer. That is just hearsay and gosip. 8. The original texts were only partly transcribed a lot was guess work because they couldn't understand the text. Answer. As the previous question. David |
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GypsyJoe | Report | 22 Jun 2006 01:14 |
There's too many questions about christ etc that really don't make sense no matter how people try to explain them. 1. If we all came from Adam and Eve then why is there so many different colours, races, languages etc 2. And how did Eve come from Adams Rib, like really you have an Adult male and and Adult woman appears from him. 3. Then there's the incest thing from what would have to have been interbreading to increase the population. so in turn then there should be all sorts of physical defects. 4. There was never any body found for Jesus when he eventually did die, so does that mean he's still physically walking around. 5. People have been known to be able to lower their heart rates to aid in healing themselves and in those days they wouldn't really have been able to tell if someone was really dead or not. 6. In a lot of the Arab nations Jesus is a popular name even today. Just like John in our family trees. 7. Everytime the bible has been translated and updated it's been the interpretation of the readers/writers that is recorded. Just like any book or document we read it's your own interprtation. 8. The original texts were only partly transcribed a lot was guess work because they couldn't understand the text. The list and questions can go on and on. Ultimately I'm a believer of reincanation, as is my father and apparently his mother before him. It's not something that they talked about with me either. I believed and spoke to dad and found he believed. My mums mum got me to say my prayers when I was a kid, but as I got older I became more of a non believer. Gypsyjoe |
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An Olde Crone | Report | 22 Jun 2006 00:20 |
(I seem to be hogging this thread, sorry!) My late father was an out and out atheist. But in the last few years of his life, he wanted to discuss the possibility of there being life after death. We threw it around a bit and then he said, oh well, I will find out one way or the other pretty soon. I jokingly said, well give me a ring from the other side when you do! I have told this story often on here, so briefly, exactly one year AFTER he died, I was staying in a hotel. The phone rang three times, no-one there, just loads of static. My daughter who was in the room with me, asked me in the morning who had rung. The time of the first phone call was exactly the time on my father's death certificate. The phone was an internal one, and the Night Porter SWORE that he had not put anyone through, and no-one could ring in from outside. Yes, maybe just a weird coincidence - but WHAT a coincidence! OC |
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An Olde Crone | Report | 21 Jun 2006 23:53 |
Len I too had an O-o-b experience (posted earlier in this thread) I was able to tell the anaethsetist which particularly choice swear words he had uttered when I 'left' my body and that a nurse had dropped the 'shock' pads in her efforts to get at me. He came back to see me later that day and asked me to describe exactly what had happened. I have since felt that he WANTED to be convinced of what I was telling him, but he made no comment other than to say 'Very interesting'. I can remember the feeling of being 'pulled' out of the back of my head and shooting up to the ceiling. And I also remember the jerking feeling of being pulled back into my body when the electric shock thingy hit me. After this happened, I never mentioned it to anyone at all, once I left hospital. My middle daughter though, when she was about three, started to talk about how she 'went through the bedhead' every night, to her other mummy and daddy, who were 'a long time ago'. We could never fault her on the details and she insists to this day that it was NOT a dream - dreams are different, she says, to this thing which happened to her. OC |
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DeeDickens | Report | 21 Jun 2006 23:20 |
Hey! How good to see this thread on Page 1 again! I've only just got on to the pc, and it was the first thing I looked for! Of course it's a friendly discussion- we've all got questions, even those of us who seem full of answers! I don't know what God looks like- but I believe he must have a visual appearance because I am assured I will see him one day! The Bible describes a river running right up to the throne where Jesus sits at God's right hand- it is beautiful and peaceful, and the water brings healing, so we are whole and healthy for eternity! Wow- can't wait! I picture those who have trusted in Jesus sitting in his presence, looking into his face, but never being bored... Denise |
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Len of the Chilterns | Report | 21 Jun 2006 23:17 |
I have said this before, in another thread, so some may have heard it before. But if asked about a subject, sorry but my account remains boringly the same. When I was 12 I had an operation at Guys Hospital, London, to remove a plum stone that I had swallowed and which had got stuck. So I underwent a simple op. to remove it. At one phase, whilst 'under' I still vividly recall being up near the ceiling in the theatre, watching the proceedings. My 'being' seemed to be about the size and shape of a brain and just hovered up in a corner from where I had a good view. When I came round from the anaesthetic, feeling very ill and groggy, my parents, who had been in the hospital all the time were there so I told them that the doctors had not done what they said they were going to do, but much more and had opened me up all down the middle. (Something had been found which was much more serious and I had undergone an ileostomy). When I had fully recovered my senses, my parents told me that during the long operation, the theatre nurse had come out to see my parents and had told them that I had “passed away” under the anaesthetic . Apparently, I was clinically dead for some time and had had an out-of-the-body experience although my parents never would believe it, although admitting that I had accurately described the nature of the surgery. They suggested that I had overheard nurses talking whilst I was in the recovery ward, overlooking the fact that they too were there when I surfaced and did not hear details of the surgery at that stage. It is beginning, according to science, to become apparent that we do have souls although perhaps it is more politically correct to refer to this intelligence as “mind or consciousness”. So far, science has been unable to define consciousness. Evidence is slowly accumulating that this mind/soul/consciousness is not a brain function but is capable of leaving the body for periods, and returning. This is the inference of the independent reports I have referredto before in this thread . There are other sources. It is not a great leap of logic to suppose that the period of absence from the body may extend to infinity i.e. when the body can no longer sustain life and is beyond resuscitation. A professor of psychology at City University (London) described the power of mind/consciousness as “a subtle energy field that, as yet, we can’t measure but which can, in various ways, interact between living organisms”. Religious belief is a paradox. In our normal lives, most of us make at least some effort to check the truth of what we are told yet, when it comes to religion, many are happily persuaded by stories that contradict the known laws of physics. Perhaps, the stories that are drummed into us in our formative years amount to an insidious form of brain washing? Some people even manage to hold conflicting beliefs simultaneously ( e.g. Adam and Eve versus Darwinian theory of evolution) and see nothing ludicrous in their situation. Others give lip-service to a religion but live their lives according to a totally different philosphy (eg The Inquisition and Irish and Muslim terrorists and many more) Len |
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♫♪ Yvonne from Oz ♫♪ | Report | 21 Jun 2006 23:09 |
I know what you mean Anna as Jesus being pictured as blue eyed and fair. Those were the kind of pictures I was brought up on too! but make no sense at all. Of course he must have been Middle-eastern in apperance. As to how I picture God. Well I think of him as a person but completely surrounded by light and colour so nothing is visable. I don't 'see' him but I do think he is a person not just a force. I don't actually worry about visualizing him cause then it would just be my imagination which I'm very sure he is much greater than! :) Vonny |
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Len of the Chilterns | Report | 21 Jun 2006 22:36 |
I visualise God as pure energy which pervades the cosmos. 96% of outer space consists of 'dark matter' i.e. particles completely unknown to science. len |
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Len | Report | 21 Jun 2006 22:32 |
There have been cases of people remembering things,places and othr people from a previous life, personally I think that what we call the soul is the life essence that inhabits our bodies and when the body dies this leaves and sometime but not always goes to a new life for which has just been created, as with a child at conception, and this life essence is the spark which give the being sentience. It may be that it also retains some trace memories of previous lives, hence memories of other lives. Me I'm going to Valhalla, all those buxom nordic maidens with their pudding basins, and great big drinking horns full of beer. Len |
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An Olde Crone | Report | 21 Jun 2006 22:12 |
Like Joy in Wales, I too believe there need not be a contradiction between scientific fact and the concept of God. I dont have much problem with God - it's man, and organised religion that give me cause to doubt. And yes, our bodies decay and disappear after death - that's fact. But I feel that some part of us, our spirit, call it what you like, remains, or lives on in others. There are many parts of our DNA which have no apparent meaning or use - junk DNA, its called. But I wonder if some of this junk DNA contains 'race memory' and that is why we are drawn to certain places and people, because we 'knew' them before. AS human beings, we are vain and cannot bear to believe that once we die, that's it. I think that some part of us does survive - but where and in what form - who knows? OC |
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Unknown | Report | 21 Jun 2006 21:44 |
Pat Thanks for that - I will have to read up on it. |
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Lindy | Report | 21 Jun 2006 21:42 |
Lynda, I believe that I am here for a purpose, to fulfill my destiny, whatever that may be. I also believe that if I fail in this life time. I shall be reborn again, and again until my destiny is fulfilled. Only then will my soul move on to a higher plane. Lindy ;-)))))))))) |
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Patricia | Report | 21 Jun 2006 21:15 |
David It is the Apostles Creed.' .......suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. The third day He rose again from the dead.............' I agree it is not the one we say at Mass which is longer with different wording. Pat |
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Unknown | Report | 21 Jun 2006 21:00 |
Thanks Pat:) That's a different Creed to the one we use - ours doesn't have that! David |
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Patricia | Report | 21 Jun 2006 20:54 |
David You asked what happened to the people who were born before Jesus' time. In the Creed we say ' He descended into hell' between the cruxifiction and the Resurrection. That was when those souls were redeemed. Pat |
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Swiss | Report | 21 Jun 2006 19:17 |
I haven't been around since the weekend so have just come across this great thread. Thanks Lynda. As many have already said, everyone is giving their opinion without anyone getting annoyed! First of all I'd like to tell you that I do believe in God and in a life after 'this lot'. I come from a family of mixed religions. As a child I shared various fetes with my friends who came from different religions: harvest festivals, communions, confirmations, etc., even though the Catholic Church didn't look too kindly on that at the time. As a Catholic I don't believe that it is the only true religion because the Church has been responsible for many despicable things, but then every religion has it's faults, because they are all 'run' by human beings. I don't judge people. I really don't care what religion they belong to or don't belong to. I've come across lots of people in my life who practise (or is it practice) a religion, but very often don't live their lives very 'correctly'. People who don't have a religion very often live their lives better than those who have a religion. We were all born where we were born. No-one has a choice as to where we are born. I'm sure that there is one God for all, no matter what different people call 'him'. I like what Jesus said about: Faith, Hope and Charity and the greatest of these is Charity / Love Treat your neighbour as you wish to be treated yourself As for the 'bit' about where God will come again on the Last Day, which Last Day is that? I believe that it will be our Last Day on this earth. I'm sure that he will show himself to each one of us on our Last Day and maybe if we still choose to 'refuse / ignore' him, we may not 'go to Heaven'.... Who knows? As far as judgement is concerned, 'Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us'. I sincerely think that 'He' will judge us the way we have judged others, but there again, 'He' will probably be more than forgiving - as we are with our own children. After all, 'He' 'made' so he knows the reason behind some of our doubtful choices / behaviour. Well thank you for bearing with me but I'd better stop now, cos I'm starting to ramble, but I've enjoyed sharing it with you all. Margaret |
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Joy | Report | 21 Jun 2006 17:33 |
Hi Anna, Linda and everyone, you asked me, Anna, if I visualise God as he was when he was on earth. I usually don't because God is spirit. We can only guess what Jesus actually looked like and that doesn't seem important, but I see God as a divine being who's character traits are those of the Son. I think this is what Jesus meant by 'If you have seen me you've seen the Father.' Joy xx |