General Chat

Len. God is spirit and we should worship him in spirit and in truth. regards David

Hello again Lynda. Thank you for this lovely thread and all the interesting discussions. Thanks to everyone for their input and for staying 'friends' even maybe some one has said something we've disagreed with. I like that. You asked why the need to Praise God. A simple question: How would you feel if someone gave you something or did something quite fantastic for you? You would shower them with praise and thanks am I right. Well that's how I feel about God. He created me - He gave me life and He did something no one else could do - He paid the price for my sins when He died on the cross. Forgave me and welcomed me into His family and now keeps a place for me when it is my turn to go 'home'. I can feel and do nothing but praise Him. Dorothy

Suppose there is another, possibly higher, form of life out there in the universe? - There could be; probably is. Would they be loved, by God, more than us? Would they regard us as a lower form of life, as we now regard chimps, dogs, fish or even insects? It’s a bit of a cheek to suppose that God would give preference to this planet. I cannot envisage God as an old Caucasian man, with a long white beard, up in the sky somewhere. As a child, I often gazed up at the sky and tried to figure out which bit would be heaven, and where would hell be. I did not realize then that, even to the 17th century after Christ, the Catholic Church regarded the earth as the centre of the universe around which the sun and stars revolved and beyond the panoply was heaven. Souls could travel there is a direct line. Any opinion to the contrary could be dealt with very brutally (in the name of God, of course) To borrow from Plato, I view God as 'a rational essence, a free-floating, eternal intelligence'. I think he puts it perfectly. All life on this planet had a common source and it would seem to me to be somewhat arrogant to claim that God resembles or is in the form of our particular species. And other life-forms in the cosmos may object. Personally, I do not think that God, as a cosmic intelligence, would give individual attention to any nation of people let alone an individual. Its odd, though, that every race or cult claims God to be on their side. They should get it in writing. That is only a personal feeling. I am no more likely to be right than anyone else as I have no hot-line to heaven. Neither has the Pope nor the Chief Rabbi let alone Abu Hamza. leen

Hi again Lynda! You asked about praising & worshipping God, and why do it. Well, I would say that similar to our relationship with other people there are lots of facets to a relationship with the living God. When we meet up with a friend we tell them good news, sometimes we cry & moan, we ask for their help or support and we might need to apologise, or just thank them for being our friend! Its like that with God, but when that 'friend' has died in your place, forgiven you all the bad stuff, and given you a new lease of life- well, you just WANT to sing, speak and shout about how grateful you are! The Bible says God is so good that if we don't praise him, the stones themselves will cry out his praise! I also believe that praise is a powerful weapon, like prayer, in winning battles over negative feelings, situations or problems- I try to DECIDE to worship God, however I feel. It's not about whether I feel like it, He is always worth my praise! But Lynda, I agree that this lifestyle is empty if it isn't continued into everyday life, loving & caring for others in a way that show what God's love is like. Denise

Hello everyone! Yes, I too think the Bible can be interpreted in many different ways. It was written for everyone and since we're all different, it's not surprising we all pick different things up from it. Yes Vonny, I too think Jesus is disgusted at the way 'things' have 'turned out'. As you say, he came to put a few things 'straight' but mankind hasn't moved forward very much since he 'left'. OC I have often discussed Faith and yes, I think that people either have Faith or they haven't. It is a difficult one. For instance there are still peoples on this earth who haven't even heard of God, but they believe in their 'spirit'. However, I do also think that with time and experiences, some people can actually 'acquire' Faith (for want of a better word). Here's a little poem I have often read called : FAITH Doubt sees the obstacles; Faith sees the way. Doubt sees the darkest night; Faith sees the day. Doubt dreads to take a step; Faith soars on high. Doubt whispers, 'Who believes?' Faith answers, 'I'. Anon Hi Denise, You are correct in thinking I'm an RC. Still am and I go to church regularly (although now I don't feel guilty if I miss now and then like I did in the 'old' days) in spite of disagreeing with things the Vatican come out with. Did you read my first entry on 21 June? I too love 'God' as he's called in the Christian religions, but I believe He's for everyone - not just for RC's like me! I can say that I have met very few priests who actually get through to people. I'm thinking of one in particular who was REALLY down to earth. Someone you could talk to about anything. He'd lived through all sorts - and I mean ALL SORTS - before being ordained at 41. I think that priests should all be 'obliged' to live in the real world for a while after coming out of the seminary to get experience of what life is really like 'outside', before taking their final vows. Thanks again Lynda for this GREAT thread.

Lynda,a very good point,I too feel like that:-))

Can I ask why it is that people feel the need to praise God, why is it that he would want that, what point is there to this? Wouldn't it be better it if we were just kind to each other? I know of many stories of folk who seem to praise the Lord, but are evil to there families and other folk.

Hi Roxanne - no need to apologise! But you miss my point - I am not a 'good' person. Again, as Jesus said 'No one is good but God alone'. Kind regards, William

Hi william, I apologise! I have just had very bad experiences with Christianity, i am sure that you are a good person as so many others who have voiced their beliefs. regards Roxanne

Hi Roxanne, I have stated my beliefs. You have stated yours. Why do you consider me to be 'preaching' whereas you are 'showing respect'? And why is 'preaching' used in such a pejorative sense? Where did I do or say anything that showed a lack of respect? Is it that I described you - along with all of the human race - as a sinner needing salvation? Jesus - so often called a great teacher by those who don't follow his teachings - said exactly this. Don't imagine that *I* am condemning you and everyone else. Christ himself said this in John ch.3 verses 16-20 'For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.' Kind regards, William

From Carol also oop north in the lakes. I have just read some extracts from this amazing discussion and hope to read all soon. I believe there must be an after life, I have faith but it is so difficult to seperate that fro m mans and the churches predjudices. I recently returned to church after several years away to a sermon about the damage of divorce,as a mum of 5 kids from 2 marriages and a husband in the hell hole of Iraq I was put off again but I still love GOD!!!!

William, I do not like to be preached to! ive had that from the so called 'Church' I have my beliefs as you do I think you should respect that as I do you!

Thanks to Denise & Yvonne for excellent comments. I too, love the Lord Jesus Christ. What is a 'Christian' unless it is someone who follows 'Christ'? Those who are disgusted by the hypocrisy of people who call themselves Christians and then lose all interest in Christianity because of them are focussing on the wrong person. Jesus Christ lived a perfect life and suffered Hell precisely because we are all sinners. God's justice demands punishment for sin. His grace and mercy provides a way for us to be pardoned - Christ takes the penalty. It's funny (funny strange - not funny haha) how people hear of murderers, rapists, child molestors, etc and automatically say, 'I hope they rot in Hell'. We want justice for other people but are not willing to accept justice for the things we have done wrong ourselves. I haven't yet heard any good explanation for the trouble there is in the world other than that which is in the Bible...sin. We see evil all around us - surely we should be used to it? But it upsets us because it's abnormal I haven't yet heard why it is that death upsets people even though it happens all the time and we should be used to it by now. But the Bible makes clear that death only entered the world through sin - and that's why we'll never get used to it - we weren't created to die. Death is abnormal. The Bible offers the only decent explanation for the way things are. We don't like it because we don't like being called sinners - and so we ignore it and find any possible excuse for continuing to ignore it. I have accepted Christ's offer of full and free salvation. I don't have to do anything to get it - I can't because of my sin. It would be like trying to clean oily hands with an oily rag. Please put other people's poor witness to one side and look at Christ. Read about Him and ask Him to help you understand His Word, the Bible. Ask Him to help you understand the depths of your own sin rather than that of people around you. Kind regards, William

Hi Sue from Wakefield! What a good question- how can both these be talking about the same God? Well, I'm with your mum! I know God through my acceptance of what Jesus did for me, and through the personal relationship I have built since I was a teenager. And yes He is interested in every aspect of my life and loves me beyond all measure! But God's love is equally balanced by his justice, and in Old Testament days, before Jesus came, when Noah & co lived, God's justice was administered by his Law that he gave to Moses. But of course, people were unable to stick to the Law, so God was bound to punish them. But because of His great love for us, his creation, God sent his son, Jesus, to willingly take the punishment that should be ours for our sin, so that our relationship with God could be restored. That's when the new Testament (agreement/ covenant) between man & God started. We now each have the choice- accept God's offer of forgiveness by trusting his way is good for us, or decide we know better & accept the consequences of God's justice... Just in case you were wondering, I'm not just repeating learned phrases- I understand, believe & live by what I am saying to you. It's the most important thing anyone ever told me, so I'm glad to have a chance to share it with you! And Sue, you can be sure your mum would love to discuss it more, or you can pm me anytime!! Denise

Wow! had to go out today and missed all the chat on here! But have had a good read through & can't resist backtracking a bit to comment on a few things.. Firstly, Hi to Margaret (swiss maid)- great questions! Your observations of the church seem to be based on the Catholic church, is that your background? If so , I'm not surprised you have noticed things that Jesus never did or that aren't in the BIble! Keeping it friendly , as we have , and with no offence to our Catholic friends meant, there are a lot of traditions peculiar to Catholicism which have no biblical basis. EG, making & praying to saints, praying to Mary, praying for the souls of the dead, purgatory, etc, etc...Going strictly by a biblical definition of salvation by faith in Jesus, we have the promise of Heaven and there is therefore no need for a place, such as purgatory to 'wait' while it is decided whether we have been good enough. Jesus said He is our priest in Heaven, and the only way to God the Father is through Him- so he does not allow room for 'prayers' to dead people, even if they are labelled 'saints'! Although I am part of a Christian church, on this note I agree that much damage is done by some parts of the church, the main thing being that people are led away from the free gift of salvation by grace offered by Jesus, and led instead into a set of rituals & religious acts to be performed to try to be 'good enough' to please God! We could never be good enough to please God- he knew that & that's why Jesus took the punishment in our place! Denise

O.C,How Cruel to say that to a child, and what rubbish! I dont think God cares about if we have been submerged in water in his name,I dont think he cares if we go to church,which to me is only a building! But he does care about our actions and how we treat others.

I had an elderly maiden Aunt, who lived for me and my brother. She had a simple, deep faith and practised her Christianity every day. When I was about six, I forget how the subject came up, she told me I would go to Hell, because I had not been baptised. I of course burst into tears, Auntie was roundly told off - but she would not back down. She was in tears herself, aghast at upsetting me, but she knew what she KNEW, and wouldnt budge. She struggled with it and later on told me privately that I could be baptised as an adult. She hoped I would choose to do this, because she so much wanted to see me again, in Heaven. I never did get baptised, but I have often thought of this, and almost wished that I too could have such a deep and unquestioning faith. Faith is obviously something which transcends intellect. You either have it or you dont, I doubt if it is something you can ever 'learn'. OC

Vonny & Kaye - I agree with a lot that both of you have said:)

I think Jesus would be absolutely disgusted with many forms of organised religion today. After all, he gave the organised religion of his day a pretty hefty serve - the terms hypocrites and white-washed sepulchres - spring to mind. However, I also think we have been given the freedom to honestly consider many different claims. I believe God expects us to bring our brains into our faith. Having said that, I also agree with the statement that at some point in time Faith is stepping out in trust. I have looked and considered, and stepped out and I have not been disappointed. Christ Jesus is my best friend, my Lord, Saviour and King. I have a personal and heart to heart relationship that is very precious and underpins my life. It is not a cop-out, it is not an easy road BUT the joy and hearts-peace in the midst of trouble cannot be bought :) (and of course, the pension plan is out of this world :) Vonny

The thing is the Bible is so open to interpretation, that there are no wrong or right answers - one faith sees things one way, like the Catholics not approving Birth Control etc and another one will see it completely different - the Methodists accept Birth Control, Women Preachers and Divorce! It confused me no end when I was younger and turned me against God and Religion completely as it all seemed so hypocritical - but in the end you have to find your own interpretation and your own path and your own faith. Kaye x