General Chat

Perhaps Ann, others are right there maybe a life after, maybe we don't just die, it's been really interesting reading everyones views, and this thread has stayed friendly, now thats a miracle in itself :))))

Consider consciousness: Unfortunately, science recognises it, argues about it; there are lots of books on the subject. They recognise that it exists but have failed to define it except as a brain function. It’s very hard being a scientist. Anything which cannot be weighed or measured really cannot officially be recognised. Moreover, scientists being human, therefore political, competitive and often vindictive would be torn to shreds by their peers should they offer hypotheses without cast-iron proof. Even then, they usually get the thick end of the stick e.g. Galileo, Louis Pasteur, Darwin and others. Roll on quantum mechanics. Quantum Mechanics may sound like the title of a book about cars but actually is a branch of science. About 100 years ago Newtonian ideas, which seemed to explain most physical phenomena very neatly, began to show cracks and 'physics' began to be faced with fundamentals for which there were no adequate theoretical explanations. Enter Einstein and the 'Theory of Relativity'. That seemed hopeful but eventually began to creak under the weight of apparent contradictions then, about 20 years ago the concept of Quantum Mechanics began to dominate. Whereas 'Relativity' was concerned mainly with the physics of massive and fast moving objects, QM describes and seeks to understand physics from the viewpoint of the infinitely small (atoms, electrons, particles etc.). Believe it or not, it is now scientifically acceptable that a particle may be in two places at once! Sceptics please raise your hands. One of the most fundamental concepts of science is energy. A body in motion possesses kinetic energy as a result of the work done by the forces creating the motion. But a force which does work to stretch a spring, for example, does not create motion. Instead, the work is stored up in the spring and is an example of potential energy. A lifted body also possesses potential energy which turns into kinetic energy when the raised object falls. The heat energy contained in a body is the sum of the kinetic and potential energy of the constituent atoms which are vibrating all the time. Heat and motion are obtainable from electrical, magnetic, chemical, atomic, nuclear and other sources and scientists therefore define corresponding forms of energy. The vital point is that all forms of energy are transferable into one another without loss or gain and cannot be lost or destroyed. This is one of the most fundamental laws of science. Since Einstein, it has also been recognised that mass is interchangeable with energy. Is consciousness (id, mind, soul or inner being) a subtle form of energy? Many believe so - in fact this is borne out by it being associated with a chemical/electrical activity in the brain so it follows, that when the body dies, consciousness cannot be lost but, to obey the laws of physics, must be transmuted into another form of energy …..Spirit? len

Len You open a window on a world I can only wonder at - thanks for your very accessible explanation of the latest in scientific thought. As I said earlier, if such brilliant minds are still searching for answers, what hope is there for me! I've tried to read Steven Hawking and his string theory and I've tried to get a grip on Quantum mechanics - I will leave it to the scientists! I asked in my earlier post what sort of an image people have of a God? No one has answered me. Believe me, I am not trying to be provocative or vexatious - I am really interested in hearing how people perceive God. You must have some image of him in your mind. Lynda - it is wonderful that we can talk about a subject like this and stay friendly and accepting of everyone's views. Thanks to all for sharing something which is extremely personal. Anna

This thread becomes increasingly interesting with every post. To my mind there is no contradiction between science and a belief in God. I believe that God, who is a God of order, masterminded the rules of science. Anna asked how people see God, and OC says that if God (re. sacrificing his son) had come himself, she would have been more impressed. John Chapter 14 is a favourite passage for me, and so relevant to these questions. Joy xxx

Thanks for replying Joy So am I correct in assuming you visualise God as he was when he was made man - Jesus - who would have been a person of Middle Eastern appearance? When I went to primary school we were given Holy pictures as rewards and Jesus was always depicted as being a fine boned, fair skinned man dressed in flowing robes and having long, wavy, blonde hair and blue eyes which would not have been authentic given his racial characteristics. Mary was also depicted as being fair skinned and blue eyed with soft brown wavy hair. With these images so firmly implanted in my mind as a child, it is hard to imagine anything else. Does anyone else have this problem? Thanks Anna

I do Anna:) Always picture God as a white haired old white man lol even though I don't think this is what he/it looks like - but I do manage to picture Jesus as a Jew from the Middle East:) I imagine God as a creative force rather than an omnipotent being - a sort of parent figure that made made us the way we are and gave us free will to do what we want or can with that.

Its been vey interesting to read everyones opinions, These are the sort of debates I love!! When we can talk about things and respect everyones beliefs, Thanks Lynda for a great debate,I might be tempted to post more In future;-)))

Hi Anna, Linda and everyone, you asked me, Anna, if I visualise God as he was when he was on earth. I usually don't because God is spirit. We can only guess what Jesus actually looked like and that doesn't seem important, but I see God as a divine being who's character traits are those of the Son. I think this is what Jesus meant by 'If you have seen me you've seen the Father.' Joy xx

I haven't been around since the weekend so have just come across this great thread. Thanks Lynda. As many have already said, everyone is giving their opinion without anyone getting annoyed! First of all I'd like to tell you that I do believe in God and in a life after 'this lot'. I come from a family of mixed religions. As a child I shared various fetes with my friends who came from different religions: harvest festivals, communions, confirmations, etc., even though the Catholic Church didn't look too kindly on that at the time. As a Catholic I don't believe that it is the only true religion because the Church has been responsible for many despicable things, but then every religion has it's faults, because they are all 'run' by human beings. I don't judge people. I really don't care what religion they belong to or don't belong to. I've come across lots of people in my life who practise (or is it practice) a religion, but very often don't live their lives very 'correctly'. People who don't have a religion very often live their lives better than those who have a religion. We were all born where we were born. No-one has a choice as to where we are born. I'm sure that there is one God for all, no matter what different people call 'him'. I like what Jesus said about: Faith, Hope and Charity and the greatest of these is Charity / Love Treat your neighbour as you wish to be treated yourself As for the 'bit' about where God will come again on the Last Day, which Last Day is that? I believe that it will be our Last Day on this earth. I'm sure that he will show himself to each one of us on our Last Day and maybe if we still choose to 'refuse / ignore' him, we may not 'go to Heaven'.... Who knows? As far as judgement is concerned, 'Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us'. I sincerely think that 'He' will judge us the way we have judged others, but there again, 'He' will probably be more than forgiving - as we are with our own children. After all, 'He' 'made' so he knows the reason behind some of our doubtful choices / behaviour. Well thank you for bearing with me but I'd better stop now, cos I'm starting to ramble, but I've enjoyed sharing it with you all. Margaret

David You asked what happened to the people who were born before Jesus' time. In the Creed we say ' He descended into hell' between the cruxifiction and the Resurrection. That was when those souls were redeemed. Pat

Thanks Pat:) That's a different Creed to the one we use - ours doesn't have that! David

David It is the Apostles Creed.' .......suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. The third day He rose again from the dead.............' I agree it is not the one we say at Mass which is longer with different wording. Pat

Lynda, I believe that I am here for a purpose, to fulfill my destiny, whatever that may be. I also believe that if I fail in this life time. I shall be reborn again, and again until my destiny is fulfilled. Only then will my soul move on to a higher plane. Lindy ;-))))))))))

Pat Thanks for that - I will have to read up on it.

Like Joy in Wales, I too believe there need not be a contradiction between scientific fact and the concept of God. I dont have much problem with God - it's man, and organised religion that give me cause to doubt. And yes, our bodies decay and disappear after death - that's fact. But I feel that some part of us, our spirit, call it what you like, remains, or lives on in others. There are many parts of our DNA which have no apparent meaning or use - junk DNA, its called. But I wonder if some of this junk DNA contains 'race memory' and that is why we are drawn to certain places and people, because we 'knew' them before. AS human beings, we are vain and cannot bear to believe that once we die, that's it. I think that some part of us does survive - but where and in what form - who knows? OC

There have been cases of people remembering things,places and othr people from a previous life, personally I think that what we call the soul is the life essence that inhabits our bodies and when the body dies this leaves and sometime but not always goes to a new life for which has just been created, as with a child at conception, and this life essence is the spark which give the being sentience. It may be that it also retains some trace memories of previous lives, hence memories of other lives. Me I'm going to Valhalla, all those buxom nordic maidens with their pudding basins, and great big drinking horns full of beer. Len

I visualise God as pure energy which pervades the cosmos. 96% of outer space consists of 'dark matter' i.e. particles completely unknown to science. len

I know what you mean Anna as Jesus being pictured as blue eyed and fair. Those were the kind of pictures I was brought up on too! but make no sense at all. Of course he must have been Middle-eastern in apperance. As to how I picture God. Well I think of him as a person but completely surrounded by light and colour so nothing is visable. I don't 'see' him but I do think he is a person not just a force. I don't actually worry about visualizing him cause then it would just be my imagination which I'm very sure he is much greater than! :) Vonny

I have said this before, in another thread, so some may have heard it before. But if asked about a subject, sorry but my account remains boringly the same. When I was 12 I had an operation at Guys Hospital, London, to remove a plum stone that I had swallowed and which had got stuck. So I underwent a simple op. to remove it. At one phase, whilst 'under' I still vividly recall being up near the ceiling in the theatre, watching the proceedings. My 'being' seemed to be about the size and shape of a brain and just hovered up in a corner from where I had a good view. When I came round from the anaesthetic, feeling very ill and groggy, my parents, who had been in the hospital all the time were there so I told them that the doctors had not done what they said they were going to do, but much more and had opened me up all down the middle. (Something had been found which was much more serious and I had undergone an ileostomy). When I had fully recovered my senses, my parents told me that during the long operation, the theatre nurse had come out to see my parents and had told them that I had “passed away” under the anaesthetic . Apparently, I was clinically dead for some time and had had an out-of-the-body experience although my parents never would believe it, although admitting that I had accurately described the nature of the surgery. They suggested that I had overheard nurses talking whilst I was in the recovery ward, overlooking the fact that they too were there when I surfaced and did not hear details of the surgery at that stage. It is beginning, according to science, to become apparent that we do have souls although perhaps it is more politically correct to refer to this intelligence as “mind or consciousness”. So far, science has been unable to define consciousness. Evidence is slowly accumulating that this mind/soul/consciousness is not a brain function but is capable of leaving the body for periods, and returning. This is the inference of the independent reports I have referredto before in this thread . There are other sources. It is not a great leap of logic to suppose that the period of absence from the body may extend to infinity i.e. when the body can no longer sustain life and is beyond resuscitation. A professor of psychology at City University (London) described the power of mind/consciousness as “a subtle energy field that, as yet, we can’t measure but which can, in various ways, interact between living organisms”. Religious belief is a paradox. In our normal lives, most of us make at least some effort to check the truth of what we are told yet, when it comes to religion, many are happily persuaded by stories that contradict the known laws of physics. Perhaps, the stories that are drummed into us in our formative years amount to an insidious form of brain washing? Some people even manage to hold conflicting beliefs simultaneously ( e.g. Adam and Eve versus Darwinian theory of evolution) and see nothing ludicrous in their situation. Others give lip-service to a religion but live their lives according to a totally different philosphy (eg The Inquisition and Irish and Muslim terrorists and many more) Len

Hey! How good to see this thread on Page 1 again! I've only just got on to the pc, and it was the first thing I looked for! Of course it's a friendly discussion- we've all got questions, even those of us who seem full of answers! I don't know what God looks like- but I believe he must have a visual appearance because I am assured I will see him one day! The Bible describes a river running right up to the throne where Jesus sits at God's right hand- it is beautiful and peaceful, and the water brings healing, so we are whole and healthy for eternity! Wow- can't wait! I picture those who have trusted in Jesus sitting in his presence, looking into his face, but never being bored... Denise