General Chat

Listening to the radio, There was a conversation about a cleaner, who took a sandwich left on a tray in an office. She was sacked for taking it and now is try to claim unfair dismissal.

I listened to various lawyers etc giving their view and some were saying, it was just a sandwich left over from a function for clients, so what is the problem with that?

Well if you employ cleaners for a company or any company, one of the most important things is trust. You trust them not to repeat anything that they might hear about clients or any documents they may see. You also expect them not to "steal" anything from the company that does not belong to them no matter how trivial.

So if the bosses laid on a buffet for clients and food was left over, it is the cleaners right to think, oh well its only going to waste so I'm having it?

I'm sure if the cleaner had asked her boss if she could take it as it was only going to waste, I'm sure he would have said yes, help yourself but she didnt ask, she just helped herself to it.

Many comments were saying, well its only a sandwich so does that warrant being fired? But its the principle of the matter isn't it. She took something without asking which then asks a bigger question, would she take anything else and can she be trusted?

When I worked for a bank, I regularly left a £5 note on my desk under my stapler as did others in other offices just to see if would still be there in the morning. It always was. The cleaners back then were vetted with 2 or 3 references before they got the job as they had to be trustworthy.

Maybe her bosses decided well if she took 1 thing then maybe she might take something else and they felt she couldn't be trusted so she was dismissed.

The whole thing has escalated to a tribunal and claims for unfair dismissal.

Was she right to be fired or were her bosses too hard on her?

I don't think we know the whole story, only the media's perception.

I wonder how badly paid, hungry she was?

That is not to say I take your meaning of being able to trust employees. But I wonder what the whole story is.

Well I guess there is probably more too it than we know.

But if she was poorly paid and hungry, why didn't she just ask if she could take the sandwich? I'm sure her boss would have just said yes, take it.

So was it her job to clean up after this function? If so, if she had put the sandwich in a bin rather than in herself would she still have been sacked :-0

I agree with AnnG I'm wondering if there is more to this story :-)

Perhaps the boss had their eye on it for theirself?

How did the boss know she'd taken it? Were they watching?

A fiver under the stapler??? That's beyond words!
Who'd be a cleaner! They get the blame for anything missing.

when I first worked for MOD in the 80s each set of offices on the RAF Station had their own cleaners. They were wonderful, down to earth 'potty' mouthed and they really looked after 'their staff and rooms. Some of them would give you their last penny and their work was immaculate.

That did tend to change when all cleaning was given to outside contractors who had no connection to the people they cleaned for and, on the whole, the work went downhill.

However, with either sort, I don't remember not trusting them or not feeling that we could trust them. And there was more likely to be pilfering of things like pens, paper clips and yes probably even staplers. Not by cleaners but by office staff. So much that they brought in random searches at the gate. Stationery was seen as 'fair game'.

I’m fairly sure that someone lost their job in a similar situation some years ago.

This latest one apparently didn’t speak English ( according to my paper) so how would she have known whether or not they had been told they could have the leftovers and how could she have asked her boss :-S

Well somebody must of reported her?

Staff got randomly searched in the bank from time to time as a lot of stationary disappeared, ie pens, etc. We once were told, if you have taken a bank pen and inadvertently put it in your handbag at lunchtime, make sure you return it to the box on the main desk in the office before you leave at home time! A box of 50 pens were put out one Monday am and by Tues am they were all gone!

At the end of the day, it was only a sandwich that cost £1.50 but the fact was, it "taken" without permission regardless of whether it was going to end up in the bin and probably in the eyes of the employer, that was a sackable offence.

If she didn't speak English, how did she get the job? She must have had to have an interview surely?

As for putting a £5 note under a stapler, it was there as deterrent to anyone who thought of taking it and was in no way saying the cleaners were not trustworthy. They only came in after 6pm when everyone had gone home so we never saw them or knew who they were.

Maybe the cleaner should have been spoken too and had it explained to her that she should have asked first and been given a verbal warning? Going to a tribunal and claiming unfair dismissal? Oh my the cost etc

The paper I read said that she was sacked by the cleaning company she worked for, not the law firm. There is a union for low-paid cleaners etc and they are the ones who are claiming unfair dismissal on her behalf. She couldn't ask the boss because all the people at the lunch had gone before the cleaners arrived.

I heard this story on JV Show this morning and the version on there was she is a single mother earning around £13 approx an hour . The law firm did not want the woman sacked apparently but the company she worked for said it was a matter of trust not the worth of the item. Nothing was said as to who told the woman's boss that she had eaten the sandwich . It may have been another cleaner who saw her.
I worked as an office cleaner and supervisor for many years and one thing we always were told was do not take anything at all and we only threw away what was in the bins and if you find something on the floor for example put in on the nearest desk or hand to security if thought to be valuable.
I do feel sorry for the woman in one way but the contractors are right in saying they have to have trust in the employees . Maybe a verbal warning could have been given first.

I came across the ' £5 etc. tests' many times from all sorts of office staff , most cleaners are aware of these and usually just ignore the money or leave a note saying where it was found . .

JG, you've hit the nail on the head. It was " a matter of trust."

'As for putting a £5 note under a stapler, it was there as deterrent to anyone who thought of taking it and was in no way saying the cleaners were not trustworthy.'

How is putting a fiver under a stapler a deterrent and to whom?

Who else would be in the building after office hours?

I too feel sorry for this woman. She should have been advised that the cleaners get the blame regardless - even though stationary theft by office staff is common practice.
I hope it was a nice sandwich and hadn't had too many mitts on it LOL

When I was a teenager,(13) my mum was a cleaner in a block of offices and sometimes, I went to help her if a cleaner went sick and they were short staffed. I was told do not touch anything. If you lift something to clean the table, put the item back where you found it.

Quite often there were other mums with young girls helping out so there could be others in the building at times!

No cleaners do not always get the blame, but are clearly told, not to take anything that doesn't belong to them. That included not helping oneself to chocolates or any other edible items on the staffroom table!

They do Florence. I've heard it too often.
Why would they be told not to take anything? - Because they always get the blame! :-(

My nan used to clean offices postwar and even pencil stubs were dangerous, in the bin? OK, in a pocket, sackable...

I have to admit, when I worked in Portsmouth Dockyard, agd 19,I helped get someone sacked for stealing stuff.

It came to light, when a dockyard worker was found dead at the bottom of a dry dock.
The 'hierarchy' said it was an accident.
The dockies said it was suicide - and they knew the reason.

I worked on reception. A dockie came in - he had been crying. The dead man was his mate. I came out from behind my desk to console him.
He told me, the General Manager (civilian) had been making dockies take stuff out of the Dockyard. If they refused - he'd sack them.
At weekends, these same dockies had to go to his house, and build an extension and swiming pool - but who would believe a dockie over the general manager.?

This was awkward, as this General Manager was General Manager of all civilian staff in the Dockyard - including me. The dockie and I went into the welfare office and spoke to Sonia - the welfare lady.
We needed a member of the non-civilian 'hierarchy' on our side.
I went out to check there was no-one in reception, and who should be passing, but the lovely Admiral George! (I never knew if George was his first or last name).

I asked him into the office, we told him what was going on. He believed the dockie.
Now we just had to get the others who were being blackmailed to speak to Admiral George.

We did it . The General Manager was fined, sacked and imprisoned.

Cleaners may eat a left over sandwich, and be accused of stealing, but there are many in 'power' who are bleeding us dry every day!!

Remember how much of 'our' money was wasted on unsuitable PPE?
Yet those who were given the contracts, and provided this useless PPE don't appear to have lost any money- they're still rolling in the £millions they were given to provide PPE.