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Hi All
I wonder if anybody has any comments on this. A little background first, I'll try not to ramble on too long with it!
My wife is half Austrian, which genealogy wise is less of a problem now than it used to be as the records are now online. A few years ago we had an Austrian genealogist do some research for us, so what we know came from him - although I have verified it myself now it's online. The records are similar to our Parish records, but give more detail such as birth details of a parent etc
So Veronika, my wife, was born in Austria to an Austrian mother and English father. Her mother's birth record shows no father, nor do the previous 3 generations of ladies, 2 of which gave birth at 16. The generation before does at last show a man on the scene, Joseph Hager - I've named him as I'll mention him again. All these illegitimate babies isn't a great surprise, unfortunately girls in 19th century Austria often worked as farm hands or maids, where they were treated as playthings by their bosses.
Last year we both did a DNA test - the Ancestry version if that is relevant. Veronika now has 3 matches with 2nd or 3rd cousins from Austria, none of them with a surname matching known relatives. One of them, Enver Sejdiu, lives in Kotschach, the village where Veronika was born, but he hasn't been active on Ancestry for a long time. Then there is Bernd Nussbaumer, not sure where he lives, also not been active for a long time. Lastly there is Jen Klaus, who lives in Germany and was still active on Ancestry, so we wrote to her. Jen was delighted to hear from us, and shared her tree with us. But her tree goes back several generations and there were no familiar names on it - and we spoke about Joseph Hager, who I mentioned earlier, and she has no knowledge of any Hagers in her ancestry. She also came from Kotschach, the same village as Veronika, but her descendants, including her parents, were from Germany. (Veronika's known descendants before her mother were from Innsbruck and Soll, not Kotschach). Jen also told us that she has a cousin match with Bernd Nussbaumer, but despite numerous attempts to contact him she has never heard back.
Ok, is anybody still awake?
If Veronika and Jen are 2nd cousins, they share a great grandfather, if they are 3rd cousins they share a great great grandfather. At the moment the trees show no common ancestors. So at long last I have come to my question.
If I add the names of Jen's great grandfathers one by one, then the same with her great great grandfathers, each of them should then show Veronika has a common ancestor with Jen. If one of these names should then show that she also has a common ancestor with Bernd, does that mean that I have found Veronika's descendant? And might possibly be able to work out what her relationship is to him?
I really don't know how much of the background information is relevant, apologies if there's too much of it, thank you for reading to the end - if you did.
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A lot to take on board.
First thoughts: when a company tells you you have 2nd, 3 rd, 4th cousins it doesn’t mean they are. They could well be .. several times removed.
You have checked the research you paid for but you also need to check that the other trees are accurate.
The further away a common ancestor is the more difficult it is to prove a relationship.
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I agree with names.
And something else to throw in the pot.
You only mention the male line so I will apply this.
Veronika has 2 grandfathers, 4 g grandfathers, 8 gg grandfathers. Many of these are unknown to her, so the DNA matches may well be through one of their lines. And even if you think you know the name of a male ancestor, there is always a chance that it's not him at all, but someone else who fathered the child.
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Well put.
If Jen IS a second cousin then the shared ancestor IS a great grandparent. BUT if Jen is actually a 1st cousin once or twice removed it throws up a problem.
Is it possible that Jen could get some other cousins from the presumed line to take a test?
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Thanks both for your comments. Some of them I can answer.
Namelessone as you say, a 2nd or cousin match could actually turn out to be a fourth cousin once removed or similar, so if my logic is correct and does identify a descendant, it wouldn't identify what his relationship is. Having a name and doing some digging might well produce a probable relationship, but not a definite. But at least it would be a start. From your second comment, Jen has a son who has also taken a test, he is shown as a match to Veronika too but as a 4th to 6th cousin. So it is likely that Jen is at the distant end of the range given, and her son at the near end, as there is obviously only one generation between them. Does that make sense?
Grannyfranny I absolutely agree with what you say, but I am confident it doesn't apply here. I have had no problem tracing the paternal ancestors who were here in the UK, while 2 of the 3 cousin matches concerned lived in the same small Austrian village as Veronika was born - that cannot be co-incidence.
Thanks both for your thoughts.
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Thank you for coming back. Having had this problem with a missing grandparent I was able to work out a group of siblings I having found a number of 2nd cousin matches. it was only when a 1st cousin once removed tested that we could work out who the grandparent was.
I think you will only sort it out when closer matches turn up And they have done trees.
Best of luck
Names
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Thank you Names, I keep coming back to this, I am determined that I will get to the bottom of it one day.
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There is a very good articale on DNA on Lost Cousins. This site is free to join. Good luck.
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Thank you Jacqueline, I'll take a look
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