General Chat

Oh dear me RTR - going off topic just to have a dig!

I wasn't blaming the fate of Cornwall on the Norman Conquest.
I fact, Brittany and Cornwall were very close.

The Norman Conquest, brought many Bretons into Cornwall - including some of my ancestors. The name 'de Dinan', later anglicised to 'Dinham', is a bit of a giveaway, and indicative of my immigrant ancestors.
The Cornish and Breton languages are mutually intelligible at this point. Why would that be? Possibly because the two races were interchangeable.

The fate of Cornwall has been by the hands of, on the whole, English 'outsiders' buying second homes.

My argument is, when do we say someone is a refugee, immigrant, etc.
Why are some 'acceptable' and others not?
Why do genealogists rejoice when finding an 'exotic' foreign ancestor, without realising these foreign ancestors were immigrants?
Why do British people who live in, say, Spain call themselves 'ex pats' - they're not, unless they have a house in the UK - they're immigrants.

Some fear the different religions - we've always had varying and changing religious factions in the UK.
Assuming every Moslem has the potential to be a terrorist is somewhat hypocritical.
I don't think the UK had a ban on Catholics during the bombings of the 1970's, did they? Yet the IRA were bombing innocent people, but was that okay'' because the terrorists were white?


I may live in/near Winchester, but I don't come from here, so your Winchester 'dig' was a bit inane. Apart from which, no-one knows exactly where the Bayeux Tapestry was made, but most scholars believe it was probably made in Canterbury, no mention at all of Winchester, but why let the facts get in the way of an attempted 'dig' ,eh, RTR?

I do, however have a 'Hampshire' element to my genealogy - they were travellers from the New Forest, so, immigrants that side as well as the Cornish .
Fortunately, my Suffolk side came from Suffolk - that's the Northern European DNA ie Vikings. I have absolutely no 'English' DNA.

Will the country come to the point where people can only stay in the UK if they can prove, through their DNA, that they have a 'right' to stay in the country - conveniently forgetting that Britain was 'made' by immigration?
MPs will, of course be exempt from this, like they appear to be exempt from most of their own statements, declarations and laws.

A close study of the Bayeux Tapestry (made in Winchester) reveals abundant evidence of Norman criminals crossing the channel by boat. Harold and other Brorder Force commanders arrived somewhat late. As there are no sign of any estate agents the fate of Cornwall can hardly be blamed on the Conqueror.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eu,_Seine-Maritime

Did you know, until the Norman Invasion, Cornwall was a separate country to the rest of England?
It was more affiliated to Brittany (Little Britain) than England.
So - all those Cornish, leaving Cornwall, coming into England - then later going to the USA and Australia to help with the mining - how very dare they!!!
Not only that - many of those Cornish had bred with the Bretons.
I'd love to 'get back to my homeland'. Unfortunately, a lot of the housing has been bought up by people from other parts of the UK, to be used as a second home, thus ensuring many Cornish cant have first homes in their homeland. But I presume that's okay.

If you're going to be fussy about refugees, to show your disapproval, I suggest you avoid:
Marks and Spencer
Burton's,
Any books published by Deutsch
Any life saving drugs provided by Sir Ernst Chain, biochemist
Books published by Walter Neurath, or Lord Weidenfeld
Don't listen to the Amadeus string quartet
Ignore Rabbi Hugo Gryn,
Don't watch any films produced by Sir Alexander Korda,
Ignore Sir Karl Popper
Don't listen to Yasmin Alibhai Brown
I certainly hope you never watched the BBC when Alan Yentob,was the programmes director, otherwise you'd be a hypocrite.

Then there were all the Protestants fleeing France (1685 - 1700), followed by the Catholics (1780 - 1900).

Most of the latter information was gleaned from this - a useful tool for working out how to avoid refugees, and their achievements, past and present.

http://refugeeweek.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/HistoryofContributions.pdf

Oh yes - and that pesky Iron Age man - he was an immigrant. I mean, was he really necessary to the country? :-D

Rollo must be much much younger than I thought if one of his ancestors was from the EU.

Once upon a time England gave a home to a lot of French people. Not just those that came over with William the Conqueror but also those fleeing the guillotine.

For what it is worth I had said many years ago that the tunnel would mean we are no longer an island, in effect we are joined to France.

Do you mean this sort of thing ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT3YqqIWxec

One of my ancestors (From Eu, Normandie) was a criiminal immigrant and never went home.

Time rolls on and the French have rescued tens of thousands of people from ill advised cross channel inflatable boats. All of these people are from the Middle East not France. The English do their bit of course but at a much lower level 'cos the French are fairly successful at defeating the best laid plans of most of the people smugglers. For sure they are more effective than Priti Patel.

Going the other way most Brits opt for le Tunnel or a ferry. On a nice sunny day a few may sail across in a proper registered yacht. The French are fine with that other than fishing boats. Are you alluding to the fishers?

Maybe we should take time to consider what it is like for the locals living on the northern French north coast. When I lived and worked in the English ports areas both sides had areas of deprivation.. It must be so much worse now.

There are no simple fixes. Indeed as wars, poor and corrupt governance, climate change put increasing pressue on "safe" countries the problem can only get worse. A lot worse. By leaving the EU the UK has deprived itself of any realistic chance of "taking back control" of the border esp at Calais.

All you need to know.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20211125/opinion-france-protects-uk-from-migrant-crisis-a-fact-britain-will-never-accept/

But they are in France first, me in my nativity or stupidity think the French should take them on as they are already there. :-(

The French foreign minister Gérald Darmanin has, told the English in so many words to get on their bike and reform the "slave labour market" entrenched in the UK. It very well to "take control of the border" but there is always the awkward bunch on the other side.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/29/channel-crossings-are-an-english-issue-says-french-minister

Cross the Border
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O94QL14ZKuA

Here are some actual facts:

https://www.refugee-action.org.uk/about/facts-about-refugees/

I believe that many already complain about where they are temporarily housed, so secure detention could cause even bigger problems.

Firstly I apologise for saying they are illegal immigrants, as has been said they are not, so I say respectfully surely they could have been taken on in France having got there safely rather than risk life and limb getting across the channel in flimsy boats.
Just my thoughts really.

I believe that it might be against some international law, but if all illegal immigrants/asylum seekers were able to be securely detained until asylum was granted or they returned to their home country then the attraction of coming here would be reduced.

Thanks Maggie. The in-house technical expert is never available when I am trying to post a link. :-|

I'd also like to point out, they're NOT illegal immigrants, they're refugees.
Like the Jews were in WWII.

Is this the link Names?

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/ethics/refugees-overseas-visitors-and-vulnerable-migrants/refugee-and-asylum-seeker-patient-health-toolkit/refugees-and-asylum-seekers-entitlement-to-nhs-care

I'd also like to add this one:

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/projects/helping-refugee-health-professionals-to-join-the-nhs/

We could also do with some HGV drivers and agricultural workers.
Anyone remember ' Auf Wiedersehen, Pet ' - where 'Brits' invaded Germany to fill job vacancies? No war - nothing - jst went over there. Weirdly, most came back. I'm sure a lot of refugees will probably go back when their country isn't being destroyed.

Not quite true:

www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/ethics/refugees-overseas-visitors-and-vulnerable-migrants/refugee-and-asylum-seeker-patient-health-toolkit/refugees-and-asylum-seekers-entitlement-to-nhs-care

My computer still won't copy links properly so 'google': can asylum seekers get nhs care

The NHS is not free for non residents including British passport holders.

I'm afraid to say, having survived on it, that our benefit system is not at all generous!
If you don't believe me, just ask Charlie Elphicke ex Tory, who has just been released from jail for sexual assault, During his time as an MP, he voted 5 times against any rise in benefit, and is now whingeing about being on Universal credit, claiming he is 'ong term unemployed'. Well, that doesn't sound like he's looking for work - anyone else would be sanctioned!
True, he owes £35,000 in costs - but they're costs he incurred, trying to prove his 3 victims were wrong.

Besides which, refugees/asylum seekers don't get benefit.
The irony is, Pritti Patel's father was an economic migrant, but it appears that is alright.

Many want to come here, because they speak English.
Costs would be lowered if they were allowed out of the camps they're kept in, to work.

Refugees/Asylum seekers are around one quarter of a percent (0.26%) of the UK’s total population.

Migration has always happened - how many can claim Huguenot heritage?
Your ancestors were immigrants, fleeing, like these people, from persecution.
Why was it any different then?

Even closer to home - What about the Irish, Scots, Welsh? They're all from foreign countries. True, all but Southern Ireland are currently in the United Kingdom, but they weren't always. I never hear the Government or population moaning about them 'coming over here'.
When the 'Windrush' generation came over, they were coming from a peaceful British colony - they weren't escaping war or persecution, in fact they were invited over here.. They could speak English, came over to jobs - were even Christian - yet still, aspects of Government and the British population didn't like it.
Still, they, and their descendants are being persecuted by the Government - sent back to a land they don't know.

Has anyone found a common link to the 'uacceptable' aspect of certain immigration?
It's the colour of their skin.

Yet, your ancestry may not be as white as you think.

My grandad's best mate Stan was black. Stan's father was black -from Barbados, his mother was also black - from Southampton. I traced her family back at least 5 generations - all in the UK.
Stan married a white woman - Hilda, in the 1920's.
They had a son, Bob - who was white.
Bob had a son and daughter - both white
They had children - all white.
Bob's children and grandchildren are proud of their black heritage.
Some families try to literally whitewash the colour from their ancestry.