General Chat

JoyL ...........

she hasn't mellowed all that much, though the turkey MIGHT not be so necessary.

She's older than son-i-l, so she must be 52 or 53 this Christmas Eve, but she is now alone. She was a single parent, but her daughter now lives in another province with her fiance. Parents used to go down to Florida for the winter until last year ....... the usual Snowbirds. The sis-i-l would go down for Christmas or to her daughter's, and she and her daughter were at Christmas dinner with us only once more, which was just before the daughter moved. The whole dinner conversation that evening constantly reverted back to complaints from her parents about the daughter moving away from home.

I did notice that daughter and ourselves were either ignored or sort of got short shrift, even though daughter had cooked the whole dinner. OH and son-il sat there silently for most of the time, as sis-l-w and her daughter constantly talked about it. Come to think of it ....... I don't think we had turkey that year , but I can't remember what it was!! :-D

Not sure about this year, as parents are still in NS, travel being difficult.

But things have not mellowed between her and my daughter ...... daughter and OH went through a bad patch 7 or 8 years ago, which nearly ended with my daughter leaving. THAT did not go well with the sis-i-l .......... how vey dare she, was the response, and she is STILL ignoring my daughter at family or social events. That's even though all the problems were sorted out and daughter and OH are happier than they ever were. Plus been forgiven by her parents-in-law. Interestingly, the only one of that immediate family who was not seriously disturbed at the time was the 85+ year old grandmother!

An example ........ sis-i-l's daughter was home for Thanksgiving back in October to announce her engagement, introduce the fiance to the rest of the family, and plan the wedding.

Big dinner at grandparents .......... J was never even welcomed by her sis-i-l, and any time anyone else tried to strike up a conversation with her, the sis-i-l apparently directed attention back to herself! Daughter's family was basically isolated at the end of the table ........... and our grandson had to have things explained to him when they got home because he was really upset. He was apparently very good for an 11 year old at dinner with his grandparents ....... he never made a single complaint at the table, kept his head down and ate, with an occasional attempt to chat to the fiance who he had met a day or two earlier at the grandparents place. Even that was shut down.

Of course, I only have daughter's version, but I have no reason to think she was lying or exaggerating.

Oh dear Sylvia, you’ve reminded me of that board that a friend has in her kitchen - something along the lines of, ‘Everyone brings joy into this house - some when they enter and others when they leave.’

Your daughter’s sis-in-law doesn’t sound like a happy bunny at all but perhaps those intervening 15 years have mellowed her.

I hope you enjoy yourselves and I hope that your daughter’s sis-in-law has learned to eat whatever is put in front of her without squawking - after all, everyone else has done the work and, anyway, turkey-for-Christmas is a latecomer to Christmas celebrations. :-D

JoyL .................

I knew an Australian who had BBQ at the beach! :-D

I worked with her for many years here in Canada. She was born ca 1950 in Western Australia, in or near to Perth.

Her birthday was near Christmas, so she always got a "joint" present ........... a new "cossie" (swimsuit).

On Christmas Day, the family always had a "barbie" at the beach, with "shrimp" (probably those large crawfish), some other seafood, and some kind of meat.

They spent a lot of time at the beach, hence the new "cossie" every year.

That would have been through the 50s and 60s. She never mentioned whether her parents were immigrants or born in Australia.

I know our close friends in WA always spent Christmas at the cottage near Denmark, he was 5th or 6th generation Australian, and she was somewhat similar heritage!


This Christmas could be interesting ................ for the first time in quite a while, daughter's sis-i-law and her parents will probably be there at the same time (no official word yet). But I well remember the paddy the sis-i-l threw about 15 or so years ago.

Her birthday is on Christmas Eve, and so there was a big lunch out that day, her choice. That year, it was at a bbq restaurant (part of a big chain), sitting at a long table in more-or-less the centre of the place. Just as we were about to leave, daughter's OH made a comment about "tomorrow's dinner". which was NOT going to be turkey, I think it was Cornish hens.

Gawd in heaven, you wouldn't believe the sqauwking and shouting that woman indulged in! She was around 35 or so at the time, but "THERE HAD TO BE TURKEY. NOTHING ELSE WOULD DO. I WON'T EAT ANYTHING ELSE.". Everyone from her daughter to her parents were horrified ...... and she attracted much other attention.

She wouldn't shut up. I went to the bathroom, and she was still at it when I went back, but our daughter was standing up, looked at me and mouthed, we're leaving.

At around 3 pm on Christmas Eve we drove home via a grocery store, and they bought the last miserable-looking turkey in the freezer.


She did have dinner with us one more year that I remember, and that was about 9 years ago, grandson was 2. We had turkey, but that was also the year there were huge barneys, that finally made us decide to stay in a hotel not in their house.

Urgh! Christmas :-(
When my marriage broke down, my mother and her husband (know by my siblings and I as the Fuhrer) invited me and my toddlers their place for Christmas.
The children weren't allowed near the Christmas tree, but we slept on the bed/settee, in the same room as Christmas tree.
We'd arrive on Christmas Eve, and I had return tickets for 27th December..
Mother had done a Cordon Bleu course, and Christmas cooking started on Christmas Eve, oreven, before
Christmas Day came. Mother had bought the girls matching dresses, which they had to put on first thing in the morning - they weren't even allowed to open their stockings, that I had brought with me, before they had the dresses on, as I found out the first time I stayed, when they, apparently, 'selfishly' opened them in bed!

Table was laid by me (with instruction from the Fuhrer, as,apparently, it had to be done the way his mother did it), we had to sit around, while mother brought in the dishes. Turkey, sprouts etc. No-one was allowed to leave anything - not even the children, but they had to have everything. One year, mother burnt the Christmas pudding, which led to tears on her part.
Christmasses weren't like this when I was a child.

We had to stay Boxing Day, as the Fuhrer's family came around, (by that I mean his brother, sister, and their children) and I was meant to be impressed at their success - apart from his niece, who had married a 'bl**dy foreigner' but, fortunately, according to him, they had no children.
I got on well with her! :-D

The children and I went home on 27th, changed into pyjamas and opened the presents I had bought them. Post 'Christmas dinner' was a pizza, eaten wherever, followed by ice cream. :-D

They went to their dad's the next year, and I had to endure Christmas with Mother etc alone.
I think the children only had to go once more, as the Furher and Mother moved to Portugal.

Then - Christmases became fun!
Stockings were opened in bed, 'proper' clothes were optional.
Christmas dinner was possibly chicken, or maybe lamb. No-one had to eat what they didn't like.
Christmas pudding with ice cream or cream, or possibly Vienetta was what we had for tea.
Meals on Boxing day were either salad, or bubble and squeak, or both.

Strangely, not one of the Fuhrer's family ever went out to visit him in Portugal - not even for his funeral.

I remember our Christmases in Oz, Sylvia. Our first was a barbecue because we spent it with South African friends and it seemed the thing to do. There were no complaints but she was not into cooking at all - in fact she ate like a bird.

All Christmases after that were spent with Australian friends, Victoria and New South born and bred, like their parents and grandparents before them. We went, first to their homes, typical immigrants expecting a bbq but, no, it was full Christmas dinner with turkey and trimmings. The only concession was Christmas pud was replaced by pavlova and cheesecake. We reciprocated the following year and began taking turns.

In our last home there, one year my pal and neighbour decided we’d have a couple of drinks on the swing seat in our garden before lunch which left us plenty of time to prepare as we usually ate Christmas dinner around 4. No dinner got made that year! No prizes for guessing how sozzled we were, yet no one complained.

Well, to be honest, we never remembered anyone complaining. From memory they fed themselves and us but for the life of me I can’t remember what I ate - probably sandwiches.

Christmas dinner was done on Boxing Day and I am sure the menfolk and kids appreciated it just as much.

I think the Christmases we spent in Oz were the only ones where turkey was served every Christmas - with our Victoria friends also doing a ham (which is what I cook now).

I recall that we celebrated their traditions with our Dutch friends earlier in December and with Spanish friends in January.

I have always wondered where the people we see celebrating Xmas on the beaches are from and what their ages are because the older Australians we knew never spent Xmas on the beach. I suspect it is the younger ones who are more willing to throw off the traditional Xmas foods of their earlier migrant ancestors - and perhaps new migrant families who think that is the way everyone down under celebrates.

Everyone brings something to the great mixing pot of life - and I particularly liked pavlova as I’ve never been one for a traditional Christmas pud. I still make pavlovas now and then and they are so simple to make - in the true style, chewy in the middle, unlike the meringues that some stores pass off as pavlovas.

It doesn’t take much to make me reminisce nowadays! I put it down to age. :-D

I was so amazed when we spent Christmas in Australia back in 1975/6.

I had 5 cousins, sisters, and their families who had all emigrated down there during the late 50s and early 60s. They ALL got together at Christmas.

That year, it was at one of 2 sisters' who lived in Melbourne, which was where we were based, so we had no need to travel any great distance ........... we'd literally never have been forgiven if we had not gone wherever it had been held!

There was a marquee on the back lawn where everyone except the sisters were expected to sit (or play games on the lawn) while the sisters (all 5) made the dinner in the small kitchen. Luckily, most of the second generation were adults, many living in other states, several married, and had not made the trek.

Then we were called inside, a couple of large tables in the living room, kiddies at another table (not many of them), and loaded plates brought out from the kitchen, and given to us in a certain sequence.

OH got his first, and whlie he was gazing in awe (and desperation) at the amount of food, the OH of the 3rd eldest sister announced loudly "Why has xxxxx got the leg? That's mine!!". Hurriedly shushed by his wife :-D

Yes, it was a full British Christmas turkey, with all the trimmings, followed by Christmas pud. No allowance made for the 90+F temperature, and of course NO air conditioning in the house.

The servings to us got worse .............. I was given an amount that OH could normally eat, much too large for me. Our then-21 month old toddler was served with a size helping that I would normally eat.

She stared in dismay at it, and then looked at me ................ she'd been taught that she had to eat everything on her plate. But that was when I'd given her what she asked for (with knowledge that she could always ask for seconds). I whispered to her that she could eat only what she could manage, as she hadn't been asked.

We had already learnt that the sisters still cooked a la Britain in the 40s and 50s, as we'd been taught in domestic science class at school.

Roast meat until it is thoroughly cooked, and tastes like shoe leather!)

Boil all veggies from potatoes through peas etc for 40 minutes.

etc etc etc


Back visiting them for about the 4th or 5th time in 2006, and the 3 remaining sisters STILL thoroughly cooked the meat well done! The 2 youngest were twins, and one of those had died but her spouse was still alive, remarried to an Australian, and he was the only one who did a BBQ when we were with them .......... plus the other 2 couples who lived in the same city!


There are still 2 alive .......... the 3rd eldest is 95, widowed and living in a senior's village in Melbourne. The youngest , age 91, somewhere on the Gold Coast with her OH. I don't think either of them still cooks!

This year we will be having our usual barbequed kangaroo meat, or whatever other roadkill comes to hand.

This will be preceded by a nice prawn cocktail. OH is already checking out the security systems of the local supermarkets to find the one that is most vulnerable.

All that will probably be washed down by a flagon or two of something alcoholic whilst sheltering from the sun under the trees in the local park, which offers free BBQ facilities.

Much like any other roast meal we enjoy from time to time :-D

We don't even do 'Sunday dinner' LOL
We eat, of course, just not that trad 'roast' malarkey.

Apart from last year, in recent years we have got together with daughter and family, usually taking turns to host but since they got a dog we have always walked across to hers.

We never have turkey, I cook a glazed gammon and they usually do beef but they are not doing it this year. I have no idea whether she’s made up her mind yet about what meat she is doing and as I eat everything it doesn’t bother me.

We have our puds in the evening while we are playing games. Only my OH has proper Xmas pud - gluten-free. Mine is always Pimms & Lemon pud but we usually have a variety to choose from as they keep for ages.

I am looking forward to Xmas as usual this year - unless Boris puts the kybosh on it! :-|

I have always classed it as a glorified Sunday Dinner.

I cook my meat the day before, we dont like turkey, and then all that is left is the vegetables and a couple of extra tiddly bits, including yorkies. :-D

We used to make Christmas dinner (and also Thanksgiving dinner in October, as this is Canada) for 10 to 15 people at time, mainly friends who, like us, had no family here, with some added lonely folks if necessary.

We made a candied sweet potato casserole instead of roast potatoes, and added mashed potatoes (using home-grown) when having the larger numbers .......... mashed blue potatoes were always fun to serve people who didn't know them!

OH made his mother's recipe of sausage stuffing, and I sneaked in MY mother's recipe of sage and onion stuffing whenever I could. We also bought jellied cranberry sauce, and that just needed heating up. OH made gravy from juices in the roasting pan. OH also made the Christmas pudding weeks or months earlier, one went on to steam as and when there was room on the stove (4 rings made that easier), then he made brandied white sauce at pudding time, which takes 5 minutes or so. Brandy over the pudding, and lit either in the kitchen and carried in or at the table. Always a high point for the mainly Canadian and American friends!

We treated it as another roast dinner, with additions, no fuss, but usually served around 2 pm instead of noon or 1 pm, or in the evening .......... time to relax in the afternoon and evening with jigsaws/chat , then have cold turkey when wanted ............ left in the kitchen for people to help themselves to buns, bread, turkey, stuffing, cranberry sauce, etc.

The only real difference was that we had to move the dining table in to the living room and add an extra table (same height but smaller) when there were more than 10 people The dining room and living room are separated by a wide arch, and the move meant moving the dining table, then moving 2 arm chairs and an ottoman into the dining room.

After the meal was over, guests moved the furniture back into place, before setting up the jigsaws, etc. Roaring wood fire in the living, and people close enough to chat from living room to dining table! Guests also helped clear the table, but we preferred to load the dishwasher.

Despite all the food, it was always a relaxed day, if dinner was running late, someone would pour an extra pre-dinner drink and they'd carry on talking! We only ever had a maximum of 3 children, usually our daughter and her best friend but for a few years my niece and her younger daughter. They ate with us but were allowed to leave the table early and move to the living room to play or talk (as teenagers do!!).

Daughter married, friends died, so we downgraded to just the two of us and turkey breast and/or turkey drumsticks, made as a normal roast dinner except with the candied sweet potato casserole instead of potatoes, plus cranberry sauce (no stuffing or gravy).

Since 2004, we have not spent a Christmas at home until this past year ................. either at daughter's, or (while they were alive), alternating going to her with close friends and OH's sister in the north. Since 2016, it has been every year at the daughter's.

They don't however have turkey, her OH finally announced that he doesn't like it, so we never know what we're going to get!! OH still makes Christmas puddings, usually 3 at a time, and we take one over there for Christmas dinner. Son-i-l and grandson don't like them (not used to any kind of fruit pudding or cake), but daughter still loves it. The other 2 are put in our cold store and taken in following years. One is ready for this year <3


BTW ................... when I do make roast potatoes, I do them rather like the butcher. Parboil, then into the oven with lard, fat or oil. Nice crispy outsides and softer inside.

I couldnt agree more. I plan ahead, make a list etc but certainly dont go to the expense of some of those things mentioned.

Yes its a bigger and slightly different roast dinner from the usual sunday as you have extras but still a roast dinner.

I have always prepared all the veg on xmas eve and cooked the turkey thus freeing the oven on xmas day for everything else.
If i forgot something, tough, we do without and it doesnt really matter does it.

Fail to plan...plan to fail! (Winston Churchill)

Florence in the hebrides

Yes exactly , right up my street, we have alway classed it as a Sunday dinner anyway but with crackers and paper hats.

I like it. I would have to make gravy though because I’ve always made it from scratch.

I don’t make the stock though. Meat juices, vegetable water, flour ,gravy browning and alcohol ;-) ;-)

Anybody get stressed about Christmas Dinner ? Read this from a Sheffield butchers .
I’ve pinched this, but it’s fab!!
Patterson’s Butchers Sheffield
??Just in case anyone is stressing about Christmas Day..............! ??
Here's my top tip
??Christmas Dinner....
I have concluded that the inevitable stress of Christmas dinner is created by adverts, supermarkets and TV chefs...
It's a Sunday dinner for goodness sake!!!
The only difference is that you are allowed to open a bottle of wine before you open the kitchen curtains. ??????
??We do it quite happily 51 weeks of the year but can we the consumers be trusted to manage by ourselves on one day of the year...apparently not!
Here goes...??
1. Turkey... It's only a big chicken that's all, 20 minutes per lb plus 20 minutes at 180 degrees - jobs a good un! Get yourselves a meat thermometer £3 off the Internet poke it in the offending bird if it says 75 degrees or over its cooked!????
2. Stuffing - regardless of what Jamie Oliver says you do NOT need 2lbs of shoulder of pork, onions breadcrumbs, pine nuts and a shed load of fresh herbs to make stuffing....( no blinking wonder he's bankrupt if that's what he spends to make stuffing!)??
What you need is Paxo and a kettle!! If you wanna liven it up squeeze 3 sausages out of their skins and mix that in with your Paxo before cooking ??.
3. Gravy - Jamie Oliver is copping for this one a swell....
Bisto Jamie.... All you need is Bisto!
I ( nor anyone else I know) has got time on Christmas Eve to mess about roasting chicken wings and vegetables, adding stock and flour, cooking it for another half hour, mashing it all up with a potato masher and then straining the whole sorry mess to make gravy ??????
4. Vegetables...?? Never mind faffing round shredding sprouts and frying them with bacon and chestnuts to make them more palatable... If you don't like them don't buy and cook the flicking things!! If your family only eats frozen peas then that's good enough!
5. Roast potatoes... Yes I par boil mine then roast them in goose fat but Aunt Bessie also does the same ??.
6. Trimmings /Christmas pudding and the like.... Aldi or Lidl!
(oh and while we're on the subject of pudding- if birds custard is what your family likes on the wretched thing then that's fine - you do not need brandy butter /rum sauce etc or anything else that costs a flicking fortune and takes 2 hours to make!)
7. Family....
Children.. Feed the little blighters first separately, if they only want turkey with tomato sauce - fine leave em to it, it doesn't matter. Once they are fed bugger them off to play with their Christmas presents so that YOU can enjoy your dinner in Peace!
Adults... Anyone that can manage to get their sorry arse to your dinner table is also capable of helping to serve up/ sort the kids out/ clear the table /wash up /dry up etc.
And Finally.....
NO ONE.... And I mean no one APART FROM THE COOK IS ALLOWED TO GET PISSED AND FALL ASLEEP BEFORE THE WASHING UP IS DONE!!!
Rant over ??
??Merry Christmas!??
Cheers ??????