General Chat

I can't have a "smart" meter here even if I want one - which I don't.

An engineer came, by appointment, to fit one a few months ago.
He looked at the old meter and was surprised (why? he should have known before he arrived) to find that I have Economy 7, because of having storage heaters.

He told me that a smart meter wouldn't work with Economy 7 in this area because of poor signal . It would work with a single tariff, but not with two, and my storage heaters would therefore not turn on.

So I still have my unsmart meter, and continue happily to read it myself and send in the readings online.



As far as the dentist is concerned, what some of you are saying about smart phones/booths/cards/Q codes sounds extremely high-tech.
When I went to the dentist a few weeks ago, all I had to do was ring the doorbell.
A receptionist unlocked the door, took my temperature, and let me in.

ADDED:
By the way, that's not me refusing to use technology - that's our dentist's procedure for all patients.

what have dentists and doctors to do with power meter reading ?

Virtually all offices and places of work, shops in London have had air conditioning installed years and years ago. It is a real energy hog and often requires a 3 phase power supply. Quite a lot of houses have a/c as well. It is rather more likely to be found in the Kings Road than Brick Lane or Mare Street.

Adding heating , transport to the current load on the national grid would precipitate "brown outs" for sure and quite likely outages. Expanding grid capacity is happening but v expensive and not done in a day. Which takes us to the real reason for SMETS2 - a better means to regulate power take off from the grid.

:-D :-D :-D

RTR: " Neither require a smart phone or external screen beyond the one they ship with"

*Bangs head on wall* I will repeat - THAT IS WHAT I HAVEN'T GOT!

Oh - and *yawn* thanks for your personal view on the future.
Of course, if you say so, it will all come to fruition.

Also, I'm slightly confused.
Your mother used to live with you, but when it comes to comparing buildings, and accusing the elerly of overpaying bills etc, suddenly, she didn't!

'

Talk about blinkers!



Interesting letter in today’s paper about a housing estate currently being built with gas central heating!

Trip to dentist was interesting. Never saw a booth my son mentioned. Didn’t get asked about the Q code. But the receptionist did keep telling me to tap my card. Told her there was no point as it was a real one. ;-)


If we add a lot more insulation to cut the cost of heating you will end up having to pay for air conditioning for the summer months.

I am not recommending either the SMETS1 or SMETS2 devices . I have a SMETS1 in one house which works for basic functionality and a SMETS2 elsewhere wich is better . Neither require a smart phone or external screen beyond the one they ship with. I cannot fit in with meter reader timings so that aspect suits me v well.

TBH I don't spend anytime monitoring our energy usage I have better things to do. I have updated insulation , moved to lo energy lighting eg LED and updated appliances as far as poss. Interestingly the total power bill for a three storey ( + basement) terraced house in London is only slightly more than my mother was paying for an unmodified 2 bed bungalow 3 years back.

During last year suppliers were allowed to install a lot of SMETS1 devices from stock 'cos actual installations were only 20% of target. They also had to pay hefty fines for slow installation. SMETS2 has speeded up.

SMETS1 does use the 2G phone signal which has patchy coverage and is one reason why the product failed. SMETS2 uses a purpose made "Government Data Network" designed by GCHQ to be resilient and secure.

My basic point is that in this particular instance all domestic power users will in the end have their usage monitored by SMETS whether they like it or not. Similarly gas/oil/wood heating systems are on the way out first for new build and then everybody else.

That there will be considerable opportunities for people being ripped off is beyond doubt. Abrupt changes in govt policy are imho also rip offs. Caveat emptor. Chancellor Rishi is determined that the changover costs, inc transport, will not fall on the government.

Following the succesful plundering of the North Sea oil he is also determined to follow up by stealing Scottish offshore wind power. He aims to do this through contracts that a future SNP government could not break.

Most people posting here will be be able, if they wish, to avoid the great shift away from carbon energy unless they live in London. Not so the end of meter readers which is nigh.

All technologies come to a natural end some sooner than others.

Yes, it's strange, how we don't hear the Government, or individual MPs boasting about how much they're saving with their smart meters, and no-one in the House of Commons sits there with a jumper on!
They should lead by example!

We don't have the remote display panel, the idea of that is so that you can see just when you are using the most leccy, and potentially turn it down/off. Really?
I can't see many people sitting in the cold because the meter says they should.

Well said, ZZzzz.
The time will come where the cost of utility bills will rise to a ridiculous charge, at particular times of the day.

Without a display panel, I can't see how much I'm using, so no change from the old meters but it seems, with a 'smart' meter, the suppliers can make up my meter reading!

I echo ZZzzz there I still have the old meter and send my readings to them online. We have been pestered by door to door callers to have a smart meter and have told them in no uncertain ways where to go.

RTR, we do not want or need a smart meter, they are like smart motorways, not smart at all, we have only electric on the meter, they send me an email for a reading, we read it and send it, we have gas delivered to a tank in the garden so no need for a meter there. So all i see the smart meters doing is meeting government targets and lining the pockets of the rich by stealing from the poor.

No-one was saying smart meters needed a smart phone!

What you DO need (apparently) for it to be effective, is a display panel.

RTR - YOU may say it's a workable system - that would be because it works for you. Your usual I'M not affected, it's wonderful - therefore, you're the one at fault, attitude.
Obviously it doesn't work for everyone - and before you assume I must have the older 'Smart' meters, they were put in last year - and the system - be it the technological system, or the admin at the end, isn't working properly!

As for 'shelling out for insulation' - quite a lot of it is rubbish - it's all 'marvellous' -unless! (see below) Or dangerous (Grenfell)

https://www.reenergizeco.com/replace-home-insulation/

The current generation of SmartMeters do not require that the householder has a smartphone. They have a data display seperate from the meter(s) which can be positioned somewhere convenient.

The current SMETS2 devices do not use wifi or the mobile phone network for connecting to the dedicated GDN (govt data network) which is designed such that 99% of households can access it. The older SMETS1 meters will have to be replaced at some point ( loud noises off, who pays ? ).

A book could be written about the vast amounts of money spent and the poor decision making behind "smart meters" . Nevertheless now that there is a workable system users should be aware that at some point the option not to have the meter remotedly read will cease.

Gas heating will not be available for new build property after 2025 and possibly as soon as 2023. Replacement into exisiting properties will cease about 2033. Add a year or so for oil systems.

The English have never been keen on shelling out for insulation. One reason is that families tend not to stay in the same house long enough to make it pay. However the new technologies are not very good at providing enough heat on a cold day with the outside temp below zero. The only fixes available will be big woolly jumpers or much better insulation as is already usual in Scandinavia, Germany, Austra - but not in France even the chilly bits. It will not be a practical proposition to update a lot of property while the cost will be steep for nearly everybody. That is why the can is being kicked down the road as far as possible 'cos the wailing of complaint will be loud and furious..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1dvAxA9ib0

:-D :-D :-D

My smartphone is on, and my children and I often message each other.
When I hear the 'message' tone on my smartphone, I look, and reply, on my laptop, :-D :-D

Maggie

That’s the point - I don’t have a smart phone. :-D

I rarely have my phone o and often don’t have it with me anyway. People know not to ring me on that unless we have agreed they would on a particular day.

I am switching it on a couple of times a day at the moment because I am waiting for the second jab text.

We had our meter replaced by a smart meter in the normal replacement system. Unfortunately it didn't send the readings remotely, so OH had to read it. No problem in principle, but the meter and display was so close to the floor he had to lie on the floor to read it (varifocal specs....) and the display scrolled so quickly he struggled to read the numbers before it moved on. Eventually a man looked at it and said it hadn't been 'switched on' for remote readings.........
So that problem has now gone, after about 2 years.

We are with Ovo energy, if you are overestimated and pay more than you need to, they pay interest on the credit, much better than any bank.

Ooo-err, never had that shenanigans at the dentist!
I'd pretend I didn't have a smartphone.
Actually, I usually leave it at home, anyway! :-D

I just love technology :-P

I,m off to the dentist later and am looking forward to them telling me to hold my phone up to some gadget so it can read the code. Sorry, but I don’t want arm ache as well ;-). I’d be there for ever waiting for something to happen.

I would prefer 'old style' meters, but if that can't be achieved, replacement ones would obviously be the alternative - and I would still read the actual meters!

There may be nothing wrong with the meter, it may be an admin error, but getting a utility company to admit either may be a long haul - hence my suggestion that they send a 'meter reading technician' around to confirm my reading. I would send a photo, but if you send an email to my utility company, they send a 'support ticket', which is then studiously ignored.

Technology may make life easier - mainly in that the general public are doing a firm's admin for them, but as is evident by the apparently 'incredible' track & trace, where the spreadsheet was used incorrectly, most technology finally comes down to a human being doing the 'donkey' work. As a temp, I've been there, done that.

As for putting it into 'dumb' mode, without a display panel, that is essentially where I am. However, the readings are still automatically sent to the original supplier, as is evident from my first posting!

I've re read this thread a couple of times and can't find where Maggie actually says she wants on old style meter. :-S

If I had a piece of equipment that appeared not to work properly I would want it replaced too.

I read my meter every month and send the readings to the provider. I also pay a set amount each month, by a set direct debit, which means I don't have huge payments to make in the Winter, and they can't 'over estimate' when they wish - they have to give me 10 days notice, and I can quibble..
If I find I'm substantially in credit in April, I demand a refund, which they have to pay back, although they will try not to.
If I'm in debit, I'll arrange for my monthly payment to be increased.

Not sure what your last sentence alludes to, R TR.
Is it a swipe at my not wishing to cow-tow to a system that patently doesn't work, or are you under the illusion that I will allow utility providers to over-estimate my bill to the extent your mother did?
Or maybe the folly of not following technology - which as is evident by the company's wrong reading - is cr*p, and probably means my hanging on the phone for ages to tell them they're wrong!