General Chat

Here's a story.
My g grandad, Arthur was married in London.
He left his wife and moved to Bournemouth.
Arthur didn't divorce his first wife, either because he couldn't afford it, or because she was in an asylum.

My g gran Agnes had a child out of wedlock, in a small village in Suffolk.
She left the child with her parents and moved to Bournemouth
They met, whilst working at the same hotel, and moved to Southampton, where Agnes took Arthur's surname and was known as Mrs. P.

Over the next 21 years, they had 8 children, including my gran, who all had Arthur's surname.
Arthur's first wife eventually died in 1922, and they quietly got married.
None of their children knew about this.

In 1924, my grandad, Charles' wife, Vi, died. He wrote to my gran, Ann who had been a friend of Vi's. Things progressed rapidly, and they wanted to marry. Gran was only 20.
Agnes refused to agree to her marrying Charles on various grounds - two were - it was too soon after Vi's death, and Charles was 'soiled goods'. Agnes was also expecting another baby, and wanted gran at home, to look after the other children. Arthur had no say - he was a steward on a ship, and away a lot.

Over the next year, Ann and Charles, with the help of the mother of a friend, made secret arrangements to marry the next year, when gran was 21, and wouldn't need Ann's parents agreement.
They married - Neither set of parents were invited.

Slowly the rift between Ann and her mother healed.
Arthur died in 1938, Agnes in 1947.
Going through her mother's stuff, Ann came upon her parents marriage certificate, which confused her. She contacted a relative of Arthur, and learnt the truth.
She wasn't upset that she was illegitimate. She was upset at her mother's hypocrisy - calling Charles 'soiled goods', as he was a widower, when her mother had been 'carrying on' with man whose wife was still alive!

Oh yes - Arthur, Agnes and quite a few of their children were moved into one of the first Council Houses in Southampton!

Unfortunately it is 'that way'.
The lady was initially paid, then they realised it was her third child, and are now clawing back the money they paid her.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-three-child-benefits-capped-18805591

maggiewinchester, I hope I am wrong in that assumption but it doesn’t look that way yet.

Did the lady fight her case of 3rd child and win, I hope so.

ZZzzz - you're assuming the child will grow up - or indeed be brought up as a 'commodity' created merely to provide housing, unloved etc etc.

Definitely not as bad as the Government's child benefit for 2 children - unless the third was the result of a rape!
Children of the 'working class' aren't as dense as this Government thinks.
If a child accidentally comes across evidence of their parent receiving 3 lots of child benefit, many will soon work it out.

There was a case of a woman recently whose second child was the result of rape.
She had a third child, the result of a loving relationship - and was refused child benefit.
'Sorry lady - 'computer says no' - you were raped at the wrong time'.

I feel sorry for the babies, they will grow up knowing they were wanted but for the wrong reasons.

Dodgy ground, Dermot. :-0

Redundant men. :-D

'Virgin Birth' -

A lot of young girls seem to think that’s a good idea ZZzzz. They don’t seem to realise the reality or the extra expense this will add to their lives. My cousin had a baby six months ago. The baby still only sleeps for half an hour at a time leading to exhausted parents who are still trying to keep on top of running the house.

My mother in law is 16 and 12 years younger than her sisters. At 38 their mum went to the doctor and was told that at 38 she was too old to be pregnant now. Two further trips to the doctor ensued and on the third visit she said doctor I’ve had to add 4” to the waistband of my skirt and my diet hasn’t changed I’m pregnant. The doctor still vehemently said that at 38 she was to old to be pregnant but he’d send her to the nurse to set her mind at rest. The nurse said “Congratulations your five months pregnant and I’ll have a word with the doctor”.

I’ve since learned that it was intended that she get pregnant to get a council house.

My “auntie” Anne was born in the July and she got married in the December of the year she turned 22. At her wedding there was a six month old baby and a few people who hadn’t seen Anne in a while asked so who’s the baby then????? The baby was Anne’s sister. At 42 Anne’s mum was convinced it wouldn’t happen as she was too old to have a baby.

I fell pregnant with my son the first week of trying. I was 34.

I warned o.h.'s future d.i.l (32). but she also fell pregnant the first fortnight of trying for a baby just after they got engaged. They got married a month before baby arrived. From engagement to wedding to baby's birth, all completed within 10 months! They were both in work and had a home tho!

Lizx

One of our close family fell pregnant while she was on the pill. Unfortunately she was put on a course of antibiotics which stopped it working, the doctor didn't warn her that it was a possible side effect.

We can all speculate and judge but not one of us knows the full detail of this situation.

Just an idea which may mean it is right for the couple concerned. It was 'they didn't think it would happen to them' that made me think.

Has anyone thought that the female in question may know conception could be difficult or nearly impossible for her due to a condition, for example cystic ovarian syndrome or something whereby fertility is extremely low and could drop to zero very quickly?

I never had a child until my late-20s but if I had discovered that I had a fertility-threatening condition which meant by my mid-twenties I was unable to have children, I would have been trying in my teens if I wanted a family.

'Abstinence has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried!"
(GK Chesterton):

So they've been together for a while? In their 20's?
Chances of getting Social housing is low, and Benefits are just about enough to survive on, not 'live' on - which should have been noticed in the media etc.

They're just following a long tradition that many of us have discovered in our families, over the years, doing genealogy! :-D :-D

Child benefit is now limited to the first two children while there is a cap for UC. This cap mostly affects BAME households in our big cities and is a root cause of why it is so hard to get covid-19 under control.

Contraception is forbidden by most of the world's major religions while advocating it in many countries ( inc parts of the USA ) can lead to legal and/or job sanctions up to and including the death penalty though not in the UK of course excepting N.I..

IMHO how many children a couple have and whether they choose to be formally married or not is their own business. That said they should not expect other people to foot the bill or use their growing family as a means with which to jump the queue for social housing. The loss of social housing kicked off by Thatcher is one of this country's fundamental problems.

Maggiewinchester. they aren’t teenagers and knew what they were doing.

RTR, she is one of 5 children so in my opinion want to leave home but expecting the council to house her and live on benefits.

I remember doing an evening class in my mid-thirties. Another student was a district nurse.

I had no children but that didn't stop her giving me a little talk about contraception.

Did she think I had been saving myself?