General Chat

I have been watching 'Britain's Lost Masterpieces', and was intrigued about one on the presenters names - Bendor Grosvenor.
It was his forename that interested me.
'Wiki' came up with this:
"The name Bendor is derived from the Grosvenor family's medieval heraldic shield, a bend or, a golden bend (diagonal stripe), which they used until 1389 when it was claimed instead by the Scrope family, in the case Scrope v Grosvenor. The 2nd Duke of Westminster was nicknamed "Bendor".

Now 'Scrope vs Grosvenor rang a few bells.
"In 1385, King Richard II of England invaded Scotland with his army. During this invasion, two of the king’s knights realized that they were using the same coat of arms. Richard Scrope, 1st Baron Scrope of Bolton from Bolton in Yorkshire and Sir Robert Grosvenor from Cheshire were both bearing arms blazoned "Azure, a bend Or". When Scrope brought an action, Grosvenor maintained that his ancestor had come to England with William the Conqueror bearing these arms and that the family had borne them since."
Scrope won.

However, in 1360, during an expedition to France:
"Grosvenor challenged the right of a Cornish knight, Thomas Carminow, to bear the arms. It is unclear what the outcome of this case was, but both parties continued to use the undifferenced arms"

Then:
".On a separate occasion,(1390) Carminow challenged the right of Scrope to bear the arms. In this case, the constable declared that both claimants had established their right to the arms. Carminow had proven that his family had borne the arms from the time of King Arthur, while the Scrope family had only used the arms from the Norman Conquest of England. Neither of these claims to great antiquity were in fact possible as at both periods there was no such thing as an inheritable coat of arms. The two families were considered of different heraldic nations—Scrope of England, Carminow of Cornwall—and thus could both bear the same arms. As stated in the records of the case, Cornwall was in effect a separate country, "a large land formerly bearing the name of a kingdom."

Carminow is my direct descendant, and his mother's family (Robert de Hornicote, AKA Robert de Tintagel 1163 - 1224), actually owned Tintagel.

Since the judgment of 1390, both the Carminow and Scrope families have used the arms undifferenced. Grosvenor had to choose a new shield, though.
Although, to be fair, the Carminow name no longer exists - lots of daughters!

Bendor is a distant relation to the Duke of Westminster (surname Grosvenor)

Well, bless my soul, Maggie! I am descended from the le Scrope family ('twas always le Scrope) and I am going to message you.

:-D :-D :-D
JoyLouise!

Blimey!
Maggie I knew you weren’t a child but how old are you!

‘Carmines is my direct descendent.....’

:-D

:-D :-D :-D :-D
Well, see how Carminowe said his his family had 'borne the arms from the time of King Arthur'?
When his ancestors owned Tintagel, they found Merlin, who put a curse on the world.
'That Maggie person shall bother people for eternity'.
I'm not 63, you know, I'm 900 and something!

I meant lineal - I think! :-S :-S :-D
- but directly lineal! :-D :-D :-D

:-D :-D


(My iPad repeat the name and I didn’t notice)