General Chat

Thank you for posting that list Inky1
My maternal uncle, Ralph Atkinson aged 20
was a stoker first class on Corvette Bluebell (K80)
Bluebell was torpedoed and blew up February 1945
while escorting Russian convoys

Near to the bottom of the Belgrano article is a link to a list of ships sunk by submarines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_sunk_by_submarines_by_death_toll

The Wilhelm Gustloff tops that list for deaths. But there are many more sinking's with thousands of deaths.

My Dad was lucky. He was in the Merchant Navy 1937 - 1951, and was on the Orcades when it was (eventually) sunk by a U-boat in 1942. He and most of his shipmates spent time in the lifeboats. Not that long, but my family did receive a "Missing presumed lost at sea" telegram.

That was the same year as PQ17. Many of the Merchantmen in that convoy were sunk - probably with all hands as the water was at least as cold as the Baltic.

It would not have been too widely reported.

Russia was on our side.

Forgotten disasters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Arandora_Star

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-33092351

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34388839

I have no idea, Inky1.

What got me was the sheer number of fatalities and yet I'd never heard of the Wilheim Gustloff!

I suppose it was difficult to put any triumphant spin on such a huge loss of life hence the reason why 'Russia suppressed news of the disaster for another 50 years'

I too agree with you Von.....I dread to think what other atrocities have been suppressed <3

I had heard of The Lancastria but I agree, Sharron, that it became overshadowed by the more triumphant headlines.

The Lancastria was kind of lost in the event.

She was the one that was greatly overloaded evacuating Dunkirk when German pilot dropped a bomb down the funnel.

Totally agree with you Von! <3 <3 <3

So sad <3 <3 <3

We need to be reminded of these atrocities . There are no winners in war :-(

So, did the Russians know that there were non-combatants on board?


A much smaller loss of life, but.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

Extract.
" However, settling the controversy in 2003, the ship's captain Hector Bonzo confirmed that General Belgrano had actually been manoeuvering, not "sailing away" from the exclusion zone, and had orders to sink "any British ship he could find". Further, Captain Bonzo stated that any suggestion that HMS Conqueror's actions were a "betrayal" was utterly wrong; rather, the submarine carried out its duties according to the accepted rules of war. "

It is the 75th Anniversary of the sinking of the MV Wilhelm Gustloff with fatalities of six times that of the Titanic but unlike the Titanic I'd never heard of it :-0

On January 30, 1945, the greatest maritime disaster in history occurred when the MV Wilhelm Gustloff, a German luxury liner turned military transport ship sank in the Baltic Sea after being torpedoed by a Russian submarine. The sinking ship resulted in the loss of an estimated 9,300 victims, including 5,000 children. Those on board included 9,000 civilians fleeing an advancing Red Army, German soldiers, and the crew. The fatalities were six times that of the Titanic.

Passengers recall the horrific screams as the Gustloff sunk below the surface within an hour of the torpedoes’ impact. Those in the sea quickly succumbed to the icy water. Rescue boats arrived and picked up as many as 900 survivors, but the surface of the sea was littered with the dead. The risk of enemy submarine attacks remained and rescue efforts abandoned after one navy barge was nearly struck by two more torpedoes, missing its hull by mere inches.

The magnitude of the incident became somewhat lost in the headlines of war. World War II was months away from ending and Russia suppressed news of the disaster for another 50 years. The fate of the ship was not made public in Germany during the war and publishing tales of Germany’s hardship was prohibited in East Germany after the war.

<3 <3