General Chat

the problem I have is that the people who campaigned so hard for the State of Israel, were called terrorists in the 40s and 50s ........... they waged war on British troops in the area.

They've taken over land from the Palestinians illegally in many eyes.


There are very similar events taking place right now ......

......... the Rohinda now

......... Ruanda in the mid-90s


Individuals might have learnt from the Holocaust, but nations haven't.

Dreadful inhumanity by a Country which, apart from a tendency to invade others (in which they are not alone), would normally be described a civilised.

On the other hand, if the holocaust had never happened, I think that it is unlikely that the State of Israel would have come into existence.

Very poignant, and very scary, Rose.

We should all remember Martin Niemöller:

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one to speak for me."

Judging from the way the disabled and unemployed are treated in this country, it's not far away.

For those who will read it

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/27/thou-shalt-not-be-indifferent-from-auschwitzs-gate-of-hell-a-last-desperate-warning

In June 2007, I visited a friend of mine who lives in Oswiecim (Auschwitz) and he took my wife and me to Auschwitz And Auschwitz 11 Berkenau which is a few miles away. During the visit nearly everyone we saw had tears in their eyes. Many of these people were Germans who knew nothing of what was happening at the time. (my friend was German who said that dictators should never be allowed to rule as Hitler did) .
Voters take note.

So true, Rose :-(

We should all remember this:

"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal”

- Martin Luther King

"Is it a case of 'refugees must be white' to be accepted into the UK?"

Probably Maggie, unless they can play football or run fast.

I was watching the Holocaust Memorial Programme just now, then our 'esteemed' PM came on and was saying things like 'We must never let something like this happen again'.
I had to turn over, before I smashed the TV.
This month alone, our Government has voted down plans to help reunite unaccompanied refugee children, and then, when The House of Lords made a bid for for the UK to enshrine protections for refugee children in the Withdrawal Agreement Bill, Tory MPs rejected it.

And Johnson then has the nerve to say what he said.
Is it a case of 'refugees must be white' to be accepted into the UK?


Of the 17 million killed in the Holocaust, 6 million were Jews and 11 million others.
These 'others' included:
Slavs (e.g. Russians, Poles, Ukrainians and Serbs), Romanis (gypsies), French, Belgians, Dutch, Greeks, Italians (after 1943), LGBT people (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender), the mentally or physically disabled, mentally ill, Soviet POWs, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, Spanish Republicans, Freemasons, people of color (especially the Afro-German Mischlinge, called "Rhineland Bastards" by Hitler and the Nazi regime); leftists, communists, trade unionists, capitalists, social democrats, socialists, anarchists, and every other minority or dissident not considered Aryan (Herrenvolk, or part of the "master race") as well as those who disagreed with the Nazi regime

I am perfectly fine reading about National Socialism which was not particularly bad, it is the inevitable reaction to the Treaty of Versailles. National Socialism became inextricably entwined with anti-semitism and I still don't understand how.

I will say, having seen some of the oratory of Hitler in particular and watched the Triumph of the Will (I have seen the Eternal Jew as well) that I can understand why a population carrying the blame for WW1 were only too glad to follow something that gave them hope and to find another scapegoat. The traditional scapegoat had always been the Jew, think Edward ll who drove them out of Britain and Hitler, orator that he might be, could not think of anybody else.

Grasping all that bit is not the problem. It is just the awful, awful detail of what humanity can do.

I watched it this afternoon and learnt something I didn't know,,that in 1934 a meeting was held between 34 countries including England and the USA to take in Jews,,,,,but each apart from one country refused,!

They may have been amongst the ones that perished...…. :-(

I know we this generation and before cant beat ourselves up about it but as its a case of that old saying ------*-If Only.*

Dont feel you need to be ashamed Sharron ,its all too much to many people to hear and see,,,,,,,,,but you know and feel privately, and that ok,

Nothing to be ashamed about, Sharron.

I can't watch them either.

I was 5 years old when the prisoners were saved, and I can remember snatches of the information that was released over the next 5-10 years. Plus everything that has come out since then.


There is a relatively new Museum of Human Civilization in Canada, in Winnipeg. It's a beautiful building that we watched being built as it is right next to the train station.

We went there about 5 years ago, and had to leave after walking through 4 of the 7 floors of exhibits. It covers genocides from before Christ right up to the modern day, with a large emphasis on the Holocaust. It was completely overpowering, especially when you realise that genocides are still going on.

As long as we know about them, and are trying to stop them, that is everything.

Having been to Bergen Belson in the 80,s when our daughter lived in Germany as an army wife ,must say it was a very eerie experience

A big air of sadness over the place with no birds singing or even around

Big burial mounds with no grass at all growing on them although path verges had green grass

The mounds you could make out saying 5000 buried here ,8000 here etc

It was almost unbelievable and such a very sad place

The paths led down to a big set of memorial walls with hundreds of names .

I wanted to go to see it but hubby really didn’t want to but he made himself

He took himself to the army church afterwards when we got back to the base


I don’t think I can watch the programs now either

There was a lad at college ( mature students but he was one of the youngest) who had never watched anything of the type, and was shocked, I suppose is the word, when as part of the history course some footage of the transportation of Jews was shown . he had assumed that they would 'look different' ie typical Hassidic Jews, not assimilated German Jews, in ordinary clothes.

That stuck with me somehow, that it is maybe too easy to imagine someone must be obviously different in order to be so hated.

Nothing to be ashamed about, shows you have compassion/caring.

No one has to watch, as long as they know what happened, and try in the small ways possible, to ensure it's not forgotten and doesn't happen again ( though genocides have, sadly, so 'we' have failed in that).

To an extent I feel that if I don't watch, I might drift slowly into complacency? Out of sight out of mind?

I can't watch the programmes about Auswitch

It is just too much for me.