General Chat

Oh dear, it appears Nadine Dorries (the health minster - how ironic) has been diagnosed with coronavirus:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/health-minister-nadine-dorries-diagnosed-with-coronavirus_uk_5e681392c5b68d61645c68f5?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

I expect she'll receive slightly more than statutory sick pay (£94 a week - which you also have to pay your rent out of).

And there's the main problem if someone coughs in the air and you walk through that space without knowing they coughed there.....cover your cough and sneeze with your arm people.

maggie ............

that is probably true, as I read somewhere a few days ago that the virus is hanging in the air for longer than the flu or SARS viruses did/do

Yes, a very rough calculation, especially as there are probably people with it, who aren't aware they have it.
Actually, some (in the know) say you can catch COVID-19 if someone with it coughs/sneezes with mouth uncovered, within 6ft of you.

To be fair he did do a very rough calculation....error/gap of what was it 256...so 373 was right in there.

RTR, you say "Nowhere does the citation posted by MW require the prompt cremation of anybody including deaths precipitated by covid-19"
Well, you 'claim' the dead bodies of those with COVID - 19 aren't contageous!
My post proves they are more than likely contageous.

As for the time between your mother dying and her cremation - is it relevant?
Did she die of COVID-19, or SARS?

This, however, is relevant - the situation in China, concerning dead bodies:
"Fifty mobile incinerators are being deployed in Coronavirus hit city Wuhan, to complement the crematoriums which have been working day and night for the past few weeks disposing of bodies"

Would that be because they want to leave the bodies lying around?

As for stereotypes, the Chinese aren't known for their hugging and kissing - yet it spread!

What's your calculation for 30 March?
I tend to think clever people who insist on 'predictions' predict before the event.
Any fool can say, after the event - 'Well that's what I said'.

You said dead bodies can't give you the virus Maggie pointed out in theory they can, albeit not likely.

I think it's crazy you have things like the racing meets going on right now when you do have so many cases, and people like Zara are there, after recently being in Italy....ticking time bomb if you're not careful.

I do wish you would shut up Rolio, in the nicest possible way of course :-0 :-0 :-0

Health Minister in Cyprus has issued new instructions.

People travelling to Cyprus from UK are to go into obligatory self imposed isolation for 14 days.

Easter holiday here won't be much fun. :-S

EDIT INSTRUCTION RESCIND

From health minister - Due to economic reason it has been decided UK personnel arriving on Cyprus will not have to self isolate :-0

maggie .......

yes, I was wondering why all the photos from China and elsewhere show a) attendants in full gear moving bodies in body bags, and b) piles of body bags (Iran).

As you say ............... what do they know versus what Rollo knows!

Extract from 'Public Health England' on advice to hospitals:
21. Handling dead bodies
"The act of moving a recently deceased patient onto a hospital trolley for transportation to the mortuary might be sufficient to expel small amounts of air from the lungs and thereby present a minor risk

A body bag should be used for transferring the body and those handling the body at this point should use full PPE

The outer surface of the body bag should be decontaminated (see environmental decontamination) immediately before the body bag leaves the anteroom area. This may require at least 2 individuals wearing such protective clothing, in order to manage this process

The trolley carrying the body must be disinfected prior to leaving the anteroom
prior to leaving the anteroom, the staff members must remove their protective clothing

Once in the hospital mortuary, it would be acceptable to open the body bag for family viewing only (mortuary attendant to wear full PPE)

Washing or preparing the body is acceptable if those carrying out the task wear PPE. Mortuary staff and funeral directors must be advised of the biohazard risk.

Embalming is not recommended unless there are appropriate controls to manage aerosol generating procedures

If a post mortem is required safe working techniques (for example manual rather than power tools) should be used and full PPE worn, in the event that power tools are used. High security post mortem suites are available if needed and can be discussed with the PHE incident team

After use, empty body bags should be disposed of as category B waste"

But then, what do they know?

..and then there's the chance the virus may be in the gut of the deceased, and faeces leaked after death may be infectious.

I can see their reasoning and hope they find a good solution. But it is so upsetting for the families isn't it?

I never gave a thought to that aspect, Dermot. :-0

Will the funeral directors need to wear hazard suits until the body is dealt with and fastened in the coffin, do you think?

It's a bit of a dilemma for them as they'll not want to upset the deceased's family but need to stay safe themselves.

The Irish Association of Funeral Directors (IAFD) has recommended that funeral services for any one who dies due to coronavirus should be postponed and the deceased should be immediately cremated or buried. 

The IAFD has also advised that transport for families of the deceased should not be provided and that funeral instructions should only be given to undertakers over the phone. 

 Keith Massey, of Rom Massey & Son Funeral Directors, said it is not clear how long the virus remains in the body after the person has died. 

Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Sean O'Rourke, he said the chance of cross-infection with undertaker staff is quite high. 

"The thinking is to cut out the contact between the deceased and the living", he said. "If there's any cross infection, it would be when the deceased is collected". 

He said the IAFD recommendations would have been discussed with various bodies - such as the Coroner's Office and Department of Health - and that the instructions are "overly cautious". 

 "The problem is that there is often air trapped in the lungs when someone passes away", he said.

"When you move somebody, that air will come out. They're not too certain how long the virus will stay in the lungs, and that's what they're concerned with. They have been looking at this for the last two or three weeks", he said. 

Mr Massey said that because we have been trying to prevent coronavirus among the living, we should continue to do so among the dead. 

JoyLouise, re your comment regarding the newspaper. This happened in the NT; here is a link

https://tinyurl.com/tdllgbf

I am sure that I either read about or saw on one of the news channel that someone in the North East had come up with similar, Rollo, but our government obviously thought better about using/promoting it.

I have no idea why. Perhaps tests proved it was not effective enough - it's anyone's guess as the government has made no mention of it.

We wipe our cell phones down every time we come home, even before this virus. That said I kept wondering why my eldest kept getting colds then discovered he wasn't wiping his phone down!
Middle child has just got onto the subway train...then changed carriage along with everyone else...not because someone was coughing but because a strange person was walking up and down arguing with themselves and smelt to high heaven...sad for that person I know but why have an hour with that...there are many things to "worry" about in life it just depends on where you are at that moment in time.

'If I were a bird
I would sing myself hoarse
About this land torn by storm
This raging river that surges around our anger
This furious wind that roars without end
And about the ever-gentle dawn that rises through the trees
Then die
Even my feathers to rot in the earth
Why are there always tears in my eyes?
I love this land too deeply'

Ai Qing

Once a week for phone, keyboard and remote cleaning is what I got used to at work and it made sense to me. If I were still working I'd be a bit more fastidious at the moment but I think anyone would. At home, not so much as there are usually only two of us using things.

Did anyone read about the newspaper that was being sold with a few clean, empty pages to it? I don't think it was a joke.

I can understand why people are more careful if the virus has been discovered in someone near or working with them and certainly if people's immune systems have been compromised for any reason.

Hilary, I hope things soon improve for your brother as he goes through treatment.

By the look of tv showing panic buying toilet rolls, we ought to save our newspapers, cut it up into squares, thread a string through & hang it up on a nail. Bet loads of us remember it from childhood, be a shock to the younger ones though. Have to smile at the thought. :-)