General Chat

I actually have a lot of time for Jeremy Corbin, a proper Marxist who didn't get involved with spin but got his head down and got on with it.

It was unfortunate that he was leader at the wrong time.

Labour haven't had a good leader since Harold Wilson :-D

The Tories haven't even had a Conservative one since Harold McMillan.

Hasn't stopped them getting in power though has it :-D :-D :-D

You can fool all of the people some of the time.

12 million more voted for the Tories than Labour

They all cant be wrong :-D :-D

No they didn't. The difference was around 3.7 million.

Peirs Morgan Said 12 million this morning

Total Con vote 13,941,086
Total Lab vote 10,292,354

Obviously Mr Morgan can't do maths :-D

To be honest I thought thats a awful amount of people
But nothing changed The majority rule

Sorry my fact was not correct :-D :-D

Maybe he wasn't the man to put my trust in lol ;-) ;-)

Corbyn was dead in the water once he a) reversed Labour's Brexit position and b) produced an uncosted manifesto promising unaffordable freebies and the Waspie compensation scheme.

I was reading through a few Socialist Party groups posts today and they are calling for action against all the Tory manifesto legislation using the Trades Unions. They have also said that they will not accept any new leader unless he/she is a clone of Corbyn and the further to the left the better.

They want the new leader to continue promising unrealistic tax cuts, pay rises, free this and that. They will use the Unions and pressure them for strike action or at least non cooperation tactics.

The vitriol they have been spewing today is spine chilling.

IMO the last decent Labour leader was John Smith.

I am not a Labour supporter (never have been) so the worse their choice the happier I will be other than sympathy for anyone who will be affected by Union scheming.

Will they never learn :-S

The ghost of Christmas future

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/ivan-rogers-on-brexit-the-worst-is-yet-to-come-eu-trade-deal-boris-johnson-labour-election-speech-glasgow

Boris has said to his ministers
He wants things done Quickly

to repay the British public for their support :-D :-D

Boris is dreaming on another planet.

On the current trajectory the UK economy will have a hard crash landing.
Whatever Gove says the UK has no way of stopping the Scots leaving and the Irish reunifying.

Not that it would be one whit better with Corbyn or NoBeardCorbyn aka Long-Bailey. Just a different sort of disaster.

Given Johnson's latest pronouncements the EU has decided it will only negotiate a very narrow Trade Agreement in 2021 which will have fishing top of the list. Other stuff vital to the UK will have to rely on the famous WTO framework which does not exist as imagined by the Tories who prefer NoDeal anyway. Moreover WTO does not cover services which are 70% of UK foreign earnings by value. There has never been a quick trade deal and never will be.

As to public support the votes cast were 47% for Tories/BXP and 53% against the government. A good example of the working of FPTP voting. A great many of the 80 seat majority rest on very slim margins. If Brexit isn't "done" ( it won't be) or the promised goodies don't materialise (they won't) then what?

Hard times are coming.

No matter what BoJo negotiates, I can't see it better for us to go it alone in the face of the various treaties and pacts that exist around the globe. I have always thought that a united Europe stood a better chance at equality against pacts like UMSCA, ASEAN, APTA etc.

We are one small nation which seems hell bent on losing the opportunity to be part of a larger trade area; we are relinquishing our protection in the process.

I am not looking forward to paying extra to cover import duty on the huge variety of goods and produce we get from overseas sources. The rich may easily afford to pay extra for things like fresh fruit such as oranges, lemons, for example, but the poorer may struggle.

Likewise, I wonder whether anyone overseas will buy British-manufactured goods such as cars when our manufacturers will either have to charge more to cover export duties or absorb the cost themselves which may well mean the closure of British car manufacturing as production is shifted to European countries, our jobs disappearing in the process.

It was short-sighted to lose much of our manufacturing equipment as well as processing to overseas nations, eg the vast majority of our clothing industry. If, as I expect, clothing from overseas becomes dearer, we have largely lost the capability to begin clothing production without starting completely from scratch and building machinery again. Sadly, it is the man in the street who is the loser as the man at the top has not only sold his business and pocketed the money but also the equipment necessary for the worker to start, to train others and to begin production once again. Meanwhile other trade agreements ensure that their nations get the best price for their produce at our expense.

Boris has his work cut out, not only in negotiating Brexit but in finding jobs for those plunging into unemployment. Will he adopt the Roosevelt approach and provide public money and jobs initiated by government? If so, our national debt could rise even further. Even if public borrowing increases to fund unemployment benefits, it is likely that somewhere down the line, income and/or other taxes will rise to service public debt.

I am known for my optimism but I am struggling to hang on to it at the moment.

f it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well
It were done quickly: if the assassination
Could trammel up the consequence, and catch
With his surcease success; that but this blow
Might be the be-all and the end-all here,
But here, upon this bank and shoal of time,
We’ld jump the life to come. But in these cases
We still have judgment here; that we but teach
Bloody instructions, which, being taught, return
To plague the inventor: this even-handed justice
Commends the ingredients of our poison’d chalice
To our own lips. He’s here in double trust;
First, as I am his kinsman and his subject,
Strong both against the deed; then, as his host,
Who should against his murderer shut the door,
Not bear the knife myself. Besides, this Duncan
Hath borne his faculties so meek, hath been
So clear in his great office, that his virtues
Will plead like angels, trumpet-tongued, against
The deep damnation of his taking-off;
And pity, like a naked new-born babe,
Striding the blast, or heaven’s cherubim, horsed
Upon the sightless couriers of the air,
Shall blow the horrid deed in every eye,
That tears shall drown the wind. I have no spur
To prick the sides of my intent, but only
Vaulting ambition, which o’erleaps itself
And falls on the other.

Please explain, Allan.

Macbeth quote for Corbyn's plight or .....?

More to get Brexit over and done with, JoyLouise.

But please bear in mind, before Rollo points it out, that as a long term citizen of another country, I am neutral as to whether it occurs or not. ;-) :-)

Will somebody, one day, be exclaiming 'Out, damned spot!'?

Brexit is not a one off time defined transaction but will go on for years and years. The UK govt is repeating all the mistakes of the WA for the new trade agreement eg by declaring no transition extension. The UK wildly overestimates the strength of its hand either with the EU or with the WTO rules. Johnson and Co obviously do not understand the latter.

Other than defence all significant industry and services in the UK are foreign owned from autos to life sciences to banking. In all cases their business model is based on UK being a EU member. The pull out is already under way.

The last two quarters uk economic returns have been very poor and def not a platform which can fund extravagant promises.

The deed cannot be carried through swiftly. Instead there will be years of desolation.

Australia might do well to consider the wisdom of its over reliance on extractive industries and the nasty political and environmental consequences. Moreover the current population size is not sustainable. The ghost of Christmas future has already arrived this year.