General Chat

Well Dermot the damage to the economy, the nation's political and trading reputation and its culture is already severe and so far as it can be measured in cold hard cash stands at over 1% of the GDP. Inwards investment has pretty well dried up. Even if brexit were cancelled it will take a whole 5 year parliament to repair some of the damage.

What we have got is two camps, both welded to their idealogy, who like any religous zealot will see their victim "cleansed" by burning to the steak if they fail to adopt the one true faith. In this case the victim is the polity of the UK. I can quite see why such an extreme course of action can appeal to Dermot.

Dermot's posts might be taken a more seriously if he could manage a reasoned chain of argument instead of one liners plus using sources other than obscure encyclopedia, well out of date, and Vatican fanzines.

Yes, I saw D's latest gory quote on abortion this morning which he wisely deleted.
No chapter, no verse.

keep on truckin'

ps: I posted here years ago that brexit would at best be a complex and expensive farce. It could hardly be otherwise.

Dermot, at least the doomsayers having something to say that is their own opinion. If I am still around I will look forward to being proved wrong. I'd take very little pleasure in this instance in being proved right!

I look forward to re-reading some of the Brexit related threads on here in a few year's time - just to compare the doomsayers agenda with reality.

I don't doubt that no deal will be a disaster, except for those who are cushioned from it. My worry is that anything considered a soft deal, or any deal in fact , which the brexiters see as betrayal, will lead to worse division than there already is and result in goodness knows what future.

Back in the 1960s the UK economy was going down the tubes.

I had been used to going to France since a small boy but its shabby chic look did not particularly impress apart from decent nosh compared to London.

On holiday in Austria early 70s I was knocked out by the high standard of living v the UK esp taking account that Vienna had been occupied by the Russians until 1955.
Once at work as an engineer I soon discovered that most of the UK was a museum piece compared to W Germany & Benelux. Small wonder that Heath took the UK into the "Common Market". FWIW it was always from day 1 primarily a political alliance not a trading bloc. The kinds of trading / "supply chains" possible within the EU could not function without a common framework of laws and standards.
Thatcher ( who detested the EEC) soon worked out the advantages. Up front she was an antagonist waving her handbag around but in the real world she was the driving force behind the SingleMarket which allowed the UK to make a killing with services of all kinds. From then on the political message peddled by the two main parties and most of the media diverged further and further from the truth until we ended up with UKIP and Farage.

Two thirds of UK earnings from services are EU based. The only significant manufacturers under UK control are Rolls Royce and BAe. The others have made no bones about the likely future of their operations in the UK post a no deal exit. Honda is going, the Nissan sport will be made in Japan, BMW have already laid down the assembly lines for the new electric Mini in the Netherlands, the Discovery is being shifted to Hungary, Ford are closing their engine manufacture.

Farage and his fellow travellers ( inc marxists ) want a nodeal exit so that they can totally reshape the country according to their goals, Singapore 2 or V.I.Lenin. Despite their claims forget democracy.

For most people a no deal exit would be an unmitigated disaster, an unrecoverable error not a whole lot different to the demise of the Weimar Republic. Bojo prefers to be on a balcony to being behind a desk.

Truly I am at a loss, on how to vote next week, on what now is 'do-able' that would help the situation not make it worse, at a loss on how the hell it has come to this.

Sorry that's a bit incoherent lol, he does that to me and I was typing to a backdrop of voxpops in Dudley. :-(

Yes I know, but I think if the deal/no deal is off the table the support for him will be, I hope, lessened? There are as far as I have seen no other policies in place for the brexit party, it is still a one issue, one man party until after the European elections.

Won't people then realise that the Brexit party under Farage is the same as UKIP under Farage, still UKIP in effect, one issue and no practical policies on how to deal with the UK they have created?

No deal exit is exactly what Farage wants.

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That was the cat's contribution to the discussion, which I have left, as it is probably as coherent as anything I can say lol. Talk about a rock and a hard place!

I will (probably ) opt for any course that is more likely to prevent the odious Farage from getting a foothold, anywhere, anytime. So that is probably a no-deal exit...which I think will mean a drop in living standards for many of the people who will least be able to weather it. But there you go, the whole thing is an awful mess.

Now that Mrs Chips the school mistress is nearly out of the door there are three possibilities:

a general election, with the Tories probably for no deal and Labour for a second referendum;

legislation for a second referendum with direct effect (meaning the result would be implemented without further parliamentary votes);

a final showdown in the last week of October between no deal and the revocation of article 50.

Which bed of nails do you prefer?