General Chat

I remember that programme and the woman whose sister was seriously ill shouldn't have travelled in the first place IMO.

I agree with Rollo (for once) entry should not only be conditional on Visa requirements but also adequate health insurance.

The States can stop people disembarking if unwell and uninsured - not ethical but driven by their pay or die system.

BIL pays between £800-£900 for each 30 day trip to the USA because without that if he was taken unwell his son would be liable for possibly $1m in medical costs for a serious op and inpatient costs followed by rehab. That sum sounds unbelievable but it's sadly pretty accurate.

I paid 4 times more than my hubby for medical insurance to Guatemala, not worth the risk in not declaring all pre-existing conditions. Why shouldn't all non EU citizens do the same when travelling to the UK?

No idea IGP. The heart bypass was just an off the cuff example.

If you recall, there was either a Channel 4 or 5 programme earlier this year following one hospital's attempts to get the foreign patients to pay for their treatment. There was one lady from, I think, Indonesia or Thailand. She had a pre-existing condition that she couldn't afford to have treated 'at home'. She was taken seriously ill while visiting her sister in the UK. Low and behold, she gets a totally free operation and treatment. There was no mention of medical insurance. Her sister was of the opinion that as she had paid into the NHS, the cover should be extended to her relative. Although there was no suggestion that she deliberately chose to travel to the UK as a Health Tourist, you do wonder why someone so ill would choose to make the journey.
The British sister wasn't in a position to contribute to the cost. That would have been one case where the funds could have been syphoned off from the FA budget.

I had been told that the original aim of the NHS was to provide emergency medical care only. Perhaps someone can prove or disprove that?

Maybe they should also be looking at what they fund even for UK citizens....as much as everyone wants this and that can the NHS afford it all if it's not life-threatening illnesses?

Does any one actually know how many have had a heart bypass on the NHS?

Incidentally, £40m works out at 60p or so per person. Two packs of paracetamols for each of us.

We need to be talking in Billions, not Millions if it is to have the slightest effect.

The case for insurance is so obvious .when someone lives here they can have a relative visit & say elderly .oh dear they are not well & need a GP & then hospital .they get love care & treatment .then home to their own country .I don't mean they shouldn't get help but at least pay something .All the parties involved promise us so much but do they really care .I cant myself comprehend so much money but 40 million is a heck of a lot of money towards our nurses GP Consultants .a drop in the ocean but a saving none the less .,I am off out now so will drop in later re any more thoughts from you all Barbra

You'll find in America for instance if a woman turns up at the border and is expecting she has to show she has enough insurance to cover any expenses should she go into labour. There's been many examples where someone has come to the UK because they're expecting twins etc and the NHS has to look after them for months in some cases for free.
Again I question any figures anyone is saying as how can you get the whole picture when you don't ask someone if they're entitled or not.
In the US and Canada for instance you have to prove your entitlement to the triage nurse...no entitlement then bring out your credit card.

It comes back to 'pre-existing' conditions.

Our annual European travel insurance has an additional £55 premium because of the medication one of us has to take. Can you imagine what it would be if one of us had a serious medical condition that might require emergency treatment?

You're right. It wouldn't make any difference to spending; it would redirect a small proportion of the FAB to the point of need. That is, to fund the foreign nationals health costs within the U.K.

Ask the health tourist why they want to enter the UK & they'd say to visit family. They won't add 'while I have a heart bi-pass' or what ever. Ideally they should have a health insurance, but can you see that happening? Any pre-existing declared condition could be excluded or result in massive premiums. Even if they were forced to buy a policy at Border Control as an entry requirement they probably wouldn't declare those conditions. That policy would be worthless when they present themselves to the NHS.

I agree with Det. 40m would fund ops, more nurses and equipment so for the cost of administering the claims there should be some benefit to the NHS.

As far as deducting the sums involved from the FA budget is concerned if, as we have been led to believe, the monies are given through NGOs rather than to governments, it could be easier than we think as there ought to be no 'quid pro quo' involving governments and trade in that scenario.

I believe the big problem with FA budget is that the percentage has become set in stone (legalised) so perhaps that ought to be changed first but we need someone with gumption to bring that matter to the fore again.

Of course, Kense. Acceptance appears to be set, no challenge having materialised - although one never knows what's around the corner.

I'd be surprised - but delighted - if we have a soft Brexit.

In my opinion, May 'has her work cut out'. I can't see anyone making it easy for her and, therefore, us.

If non EU 'health tourists' can't or won't pay for their treatment, why not take the cost from the Foreign Aid budget? After all, the publicly funded NHS has 'aided' 'foreigners'. Health Tourists don't just turn up with a broken limb; they tend to have more serious pre-existing conditions. That's why they've traveled to the UK, to get the treatment they can't afford in their country of residence.

40m or 50m may be a drop in the ocean, but just think how many operations it could fund. Even if 80% was recovered or reimbursed, it could make a difference.

JoyLouise, the argument now is not about remain or leave but about how hard the Brexit is. May does not seem to have changed her view even though the general election results tend to imply a soft Brexit is the public choice.

I am aware of the background of lawyersforbritain but their view remains valid. They have, like others, propped up their own agenda and beliefs.

Time to challenge it through the courts? Though some may think about going further than murmurs, I'd be surprised if anyone was willing to go through the whole process, not just because of the financial costs but also because of the risk of being labelled anti-democratic and high-handed by fighting the will of the majority.

I got it from a quick google. IGP's figure may well be correct but it is peanuts compared with the NHS budget.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2214173/Health-tourists-come-Britain-free-NHS-treatment-cost-taxpayer-40m.html

A recent newspaper article suggested that the saving could bearound 500m, but even that is less than one half percent of the NHS budget.

Equivalent to a saving of 50p off your £100 weekly shop.

One thing that shouldn't be overlooked is the cost of recovering the money as it is all to easy for it to exceed the amount received.

Kense interested where the 40 million figure comes from? Is it accurate or could it be more and they never actually ask people if they're UK citizens so how do they get this figure?
Agreed Barbra people should have insurance to cover themselves.

Barbra, the NHS yearly budget is over £100 billion, the amount spent per annum on treating people who are not entitled is about £40 million. Therefore you can't blame that for the state of the NHS.

JoyLouise, the lawyersforbritain organisation is closely linked to the Vote Leave setup. So anything on that site is very suspect.

I think Mr Corbyn is a very delusional man he promised so much in his campaign .didn't say were the funds were coming from so Tories are in again with their empty promises they are all the same NHS is in a mess because we treat people who have never paid into our system they should have insurance as other counties do, It just makes me annoyed that everyone thinks they should get owt for nowt ..I worked & paid my dues as my oh did our two Sons & other members of our family My late Dad worked till he was 73 just part time by then but honestly they would turn in their graves at the way society has gone .for goodness sake somebody needs to get it right for our next generation .Think I had better stop now before I say to much :-)

Rollo I already live in Harrogate