General Chat

Caroline....your reply at 17-03pm.
I agree with all of what you have said.

Joan.

I fully agree with that posting too Joan. I am furious reading about these protests going on just to make a left wing political issue of it. All those so called people should be ashamed of themselves and crawl back under the stones they have emerged from

Seconded, and supercrutch's the one before too.

And, in my opinion, perhaps we need to look back to why the labour government of the early 70's sponsored the building of these monstrosities in the first place.

Those who live in the area, or other similar tower blocks, do have cause to protest. However, printed placards with Socialist Worker along the top rather highlights that 'outsiders' had jumped on the bandwagon.

No one is saying those directly affected don't have a grievance but direct it at the right people in the right way.

Hmmmmm after a bit of searching I found that KCTMO wholly owns http://www.kctmo.org.uk/main/28/kctmo-repairs-company

previously traded as Ferrer Maintenance.

Now call me cynical but one does wonder if the upgrades were put out for tender. A bit more digging required.

Of course that proves Ms May is entirely responsible for the tragedy doesn't it :-|

Keep digging supercrutch you might be onto something there.

There have been stories; true or otherwise; that another product was going to be used at first but they decided on this one as it saved a little money. Who made that decision I wonder? Not TM for sure.

Mates, Sue?


I agree, give the PM a chance.

I heard a Tory MP on the radio this morning saying that the abuse TM got "goes with the territory" of being PM.

The people were hurting, they had seen and experienced things no one should have to go through and they were angry. TM's apparent lack of compassion became the focus for their rage.

The protest at the council building was totally understandable, they were the people who approved the refurb.

I predict their anger will switch to where it's more deserved as days go by.

From what I've read the police actually advised TM not to speak to the crowds at the time.

Grief at any time can be hard to fathom, in these circumstances even worse.

Just a quick point, because I noticed the posters too.

It 'may' be that the persons carrying the printed placards with Socialist Worker on did already have them, after all K & C fell to Labour in the election. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility is it, that one can be local, affected directly or indirectly by this tragedy AND already be a Labour supporter with a big placard that says what you feel applies in this case also?

As for 'outsiders' being angry...well aren't you? I am and I live no where near.
"Every man's death diminishes me" especially when you can clearly see someone, albeit not yet known who, is, by my definition of common sense at least, culpable.

I'm furious, Rose.

Agreed everyone should be angry as this should never have happened in any way, but can we justify mob behaviour on this scale for any reason. If we do then where do we draw the line? A silent mass gathering would have shown those in charge the sheer scale of the public feelings. Storming buildings; as much as we can only start to understand their upset; is not going to solve anything. Sad but true.
Even sticking up for the council bods that were involved in the decision making, were they actually told the truth about the material? They may have innocently approved them thinking they were 100% safe.

It wasn't exactly a riot. They occupied the foyer for a while. Some of them were allowed to meet officials and ask questions. They reported back.

There was a bit more shouting them everyone went home, those that had homes and weren't sleeping on floors.

The way I look at it is pretty much encapsulated in the words of whoever it was ( Nick Hurd?)

".....treating the victims as “if they were our own friends and family”.

I'd be banging down doors if it were one of my own, and I am guessing so would most of the people on this thread whatever defence for calm reasoning they may be coming out with. When you can't find your loved ones and no one is telling you whether they are dead or alive in a hospital? When you want to know if corners were cut and by whom and you want to know now ? When you see the terrible grief and shock and sheer horror of something avoidable in your own community, or in someone else's in fact...well you react don't you?

I do not think T May was well advised, it might have been better to meet at least some of the victims or just not go at all.

She is not good at showing the human touch in public, however heartbroken she may be in private, some people have it, some don't. Her way of showing it is to get on with the practicalities, but sometimes it is the holding of a hand and just 'being there' to listen that is most valuable in the short term to those in need. It is why Princess Diana was so popular.

Pictures have been shown around the world of people involved banging on doors of the council buildings, then pushing their way inside albeit they were stopped in the foyer and half way up the stairs. Not sure how many are sleeping on floors right now, it seems many are being put into hotels. Obviously not the same as your own home and your own bed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40312564

I assume that the BBC is still considered reasonably unbiased as to this article ( rhetorical question).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40315800

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article.../Firm-paid-2-6m-cladding-Grenfell-collapsed.html

Rydon contracted ,

,to Harley Facades Ltd





--quote,

written by Ray(Raymond) Bailey owner of Harley Facades Ltd,and wife is company sec.

1st Sept 2016.

Harley completes its work of Grenfell Tower,the project involved a complete overclad,window replacment to a residental tower.
well done Ben and team,great looking job and a happy client,,!!

,this was wriiten on their facebook page

RB has previously been a company owner but -went bust.
----------------------------------------------------------

although many contractors were involved in the renovation.

BBC unbiased *falls off commode* not for about 15 years.

I agree Ms. May cannot seem to express emotion very well, some people just cannot let their guard down and hug people (as was suggested she should have done on the newspaper review on Sky).

Everyone wants answers....that's a given. What I don't want is the victims' needs hijacked by the Socialist Party, you can get your handy placards/leaflets and news of a disruption nationwide during October here:

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/

Mr. Corbyn should shut up, stop trying to score points and offer to HELP in cross party talks to sort out the housing need at least. Not that all those made homeless can be re-housed in W11 as demanded. There isn't enough housing stock.

Agreed Supercrutch, do you want a touchy feely PM or one doing what's needed
Did Churchill go around hugging everyone?