General Chat

Could you do me a favour Rose.....I know you like reading :-)

Could you download the following from Amazzon £1-99. And tell me what you think....what. I have read so far is an eye opener ...... It may also explain why there Was more than the immigration card that swayed many.....


The Great Deception: The Secret History of the European Union Kindle Edition


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Deception-Secret-History-European-ebook/dp/B01DLVZA2W/ref=sr_1_11?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1466959325&sr=1-11&keywords=History

No Susan not everyone is, I would never say so... but some are, and you know as well as I do that there are even some on this board whose ignorance and prejudices go hand in hand and they are celebrating today.

I don't want anyone to sympathise with the remainers per se, just have some compassion for the people who cannot afford to ride out the uncertainty, who 'may' lose their jobs or their homes in the coming years until/if stability is established.

Long term results may not come quick enough for those who suffer in the meantime...and that is likely imo to apply equally to remainers and leavers alike.

If it all works out for the good of the majority, I shall come on here 5/10 years down the line and say " I was wrong" ;-)

Don't forget a lot of the banks made a lot of money off that result trading all night...so they were going to win short term no matter what the result.

Not everyone is like that Rose, no more than all the remains have The UK s best interests at heart. I do feel for those who wanted the remains to win, but somebody had to lose. I don't think it helps to think that. 'all' leavers are of bad character.....may be some....just as all remainers are not angels with their motives for their choice....We must all stand together to make sure that the unscrupulous have less of a chance to spout their hatred in our beloved country. ( sorry keyboard fault)

I am not belittling anyone, there were many who voted leave that I know did so for what they believe are 'good reasons' or because they were unsure they thought leave might well be better than the status quo and deliberated long and hard, arguing one way and then the other to themselves before voting.

I still think that overall those reasons were not 'good enough' from a financial and social point of view, that the benefits of being IN outweighed the potential ( who knows) benefits of being OUT.

That said, I AM and WILL be belittling the people who voted out for reasons of prejudice, those who, already, have taken the vote as an endorsment that they are right to blame all the country's woes on "immigrants and the EU" ( mainly the former) rather than successive governments.

People of that ilk I have no time for, and yes some have already appeared on my FB, sharing posts from those organisations like Britain First etc.

I have no time for them, but I fear as said that they will now be even more vociferous in their hatred given that they have, at least in their own minds, had their way on this. I truly fear that this country will become, whether by choice or otherwise, isolationist, xenophobic and with a mindset that I cannot feel is 'my country'.

That fear doubles at the thought that along with this referendum there is also the real possibility of Trump being elected.

Rose
I so agree with you.

I am tired of the recriminations.

I voted remain because I wanted the young people to have the opportunities that I had as a member of the EU. Both working and studying in Europe.

My worry now is the effect on my standard of living.I have suffered from a recession caused by the banking crisis and when we are just beginning to have some sign of recovery - or so I am told- I have at least another 27 months of uncertainty.

To those who say " get over it " I will when I see a comprehensive plan for our exit .

I am avoiding FB...........way too nasty on there at the moment :-(

I am dodging all the toys being thrown out of the prams Susan .......I came here for a rest :-D :-D

I am not trying to silence remainers...just those who think it ok to more or less call the leavers idiots and worse. I don't think anyone is an idiot for voting the way they did......but what hurts me is some 'friends' are forgetting we can read their posts and calling leavers worse names than they have called murderers. (( sorry keyboard playing up) It also hurts me to see the negativity about our Country.....what must the others think of us....Are you now trying to shut 'me' up. .....My points are as valid as the next and I have read enough writings of the remains to have made me want to say my piece too.......I don't normally vote as they are, in my opinion, as bad as each other, which they are now proving ...But!.....this time I felt strongly enough to......only to be called names and the leave vote not taken for what it means......Now tell me why I bothered..........We the leavers have feelings and good reason too...please don't belittle us for our genuine vote and make that vote to be of no consequence just because it is not agreed with.

PS. Rose <3

The leave campainers are not part of an elected government though Rose........I voted leave for many reasons, immigration was not one of them, I have no issues with that at all.

I have had a weekend of ear-bashing from a very stroppy 17 year old daughter and her friends who are all fired up......they would have voted remain, mainly because their teachers were all for it.

I don't want to silence the remainers, just stop being labelled uneducated, anti-europe, selfish, uncaring, ignorant etc etc..........not by my daughter and her friends.....we have had a weekend of listening to each other.

We have agreed to disagree and move on......nothing should split family and friends.

It is what it is.

To say the vote was rigged because 16-18 couldn't vote is pushing it, you might as well say anyone over 7 can vote as give me the child until they're 7......

Both parties told lies both parties told truths nothing unusual there.

The highest no shows was in the younger age bracket so I'm sorry you didn't vote don't moan.

I know people young that voted out and people old that voted in, like I know Scots that voted out that's the way it goes.

Democracy doesn't mean you can sulk when you don't win, it means who honestly knows what tomorrow will bring but it will be hard work and yes maybe some "suffering" short term but if everyone tries to do their bit it might just might work out.........

Rose, it would have been the same for us leave voters if it had gone the other way.

We would have had to continue being a part of something we did not believe was working.

Time will tell whether a stand alone Britain can be great again.

Meanwhile...

To anyone with spare bricks, I hear Nicola Sturgeon needs them to repair a wall.

It's 2 days... if someone annoys you over something trivial you may well "get over it" in two days? ( Some of you don't...me neither)

But If someone else takes an action that you believe will adversely affect you and yours, for years to come do you shrug and say 'oh well it'll all come good in the end'? Like hell you do, I know most of you well enough to have seen that you don't, even when it's a topic on here that doesn't affect you 'personally'.( Edit: you keep battling on don't you?!)

Don't silence the remainers please, we have more right to be fearful than those who voted out who presumably found something that reassured them it was the right thing to do. I saw nothing that tells me it was a good idea, and the seeming lack of any plan for what happens after the referendum is not helping.

>>>>>

An interesting article

http://lionheartnews.com/2016/06/angela-merkel-hands-britain-olive-branch

Hear hear Susan. Very well said

Tsk!.....doom and gloom .....words and more words .....Its too late Rollo.....the referendum has been and gone. All this doom and gloom can only have a negative effect on our Country. Let's be more positive, use your powers of speech and literacy to help the country, not belittle it's voters because they don't agree.

fwiw I think the remainers would be saying less, if those who led the campaign to leave were saying more.

I agree with Susan, word for word so I just feel that ALL politicians are making a mockery of their privilege and are so busy point scoring that they are creating a crisis within politics.

Whichever way the vote went I certainly wouldn't have lined up the opposing side and insulted them which seems to be the favoured game this weekend.

After General Elections, however heavy the defeat, the losers always accept the result, oppose as best they can and wait for next time. Experience says the wheel will come around.

A referendum such as last week's does not allow of any future change the losing side is stuck with it. That is one reason why this is a very poor way of resolving such issues.

This time there is a potent opposition.

1. The economic and financial disaster looming has already started. This was airily dismissed by Leave.
2. The margin for Leave was small, around 4%
3. The Leave campaign was remarkable for its mendacity and viciousness.
4. The electorate was rigged. 16-18 at least should have been considered.
5. Wales, Scotland and N.I. should all have had a veto. As it is the Scots are heading out.
6. The Remain side was way more than 50% if you take out the pensioner vote. Many of the Remainers are the very people who are earning significant money for the UK balance of payments. Financing a country from a housing bubble is never going to fly long term.

The opposition will not lie down, accept the result and pull together. Ideally there should be a general election ( there probably will be ) but as the Labour Party is on self destruct it would not really resolve the mess. So we are left with a second referendum but hardly a replica of the first one. I doubt this would happen.

So the brightest and the best will do what they have always done when UK Govt fails its people. They will leave with their families, businesses, employees and know how benefiting other countries both in and outside of the EU. Ireland is a current hot choice. The left behind and disgruntled in St Austell, Margate and Middlesborough will be trapped inside a government of the far right which sees flat out neo liberalism as the solution to everything. Osbourne's "austerity" will be remembered as the good old days. There will be no EU or Labour party to defend the disadvantaged.

Beware of what you wish for lest your wish should come true.

Old Chinese saying..."may you live in interesting times".