General Chat

Interesting thread :-)

well I hope you find the programme enjoyable and amusing

According to the latest annual stats, Whitchurch High is indeed extremely poor performing and in need of desperate improvement.

It is in the absolute bottom tier of schools and is accompanied by an astonishing 16 ( ! ) schools in total across Cardiff.

Michaelston Community College in Cardiff is the eighth worst secondary school in Wales out of a total of 220 odd - that's pretty bad.

There are many more schools than posted above:

http://sites.cardiff.gov.uk/ysgol/Schools/SchoolSearch/DoSchoolSearch.asp?School_type=s

I'll await the flak for this, however it's my opinion......when schools were categorised as: Grammar, Technical College and Secondary Modern in the 50s and 60s every child, no matter what their ability, could access the education which would suit them best.

Today's system has disadvantaged both the more academic and the less academic. It's been a nightmare for some friends teaching math and science to a classroom of mixed ability pupils.

Too little time given to those who could progress quickly as too much time given to those who are having problems keeping up.

There is nothing more damaging to a child than making them feel inadequate in a class where they are being taught a subject they cannot grasp and at a level they will never use as an adult.

We all know how difficult it can be to understand any subject if we didn't have a good founding in the basics. Some children don't have the capacity to absorb academically but they may well be mechanical, artistic or inventive.

The system needs a good shake up but having said that, it's had so many in the past that I doubt a final solution will ever be set in stone.

Let's give EVERY child the opportunity to be the best they can in whatever career choice they make.

Whitchurch High is local to me - was once the largest comprehensive in Europe - not sure if it still holds that title - it is the combination of the original grammar school and the comprehensive - on two sites

my son attended Whitchurch but although intelligent failed to make his mark there as he just wasn't cut out to sit behind a desk all day - I despaired of him ever getting a decent job, but hey presto, youth opportunity placed him with British Rail where he has been ever since, now driving the high speed trains from Swansea to Paddington

lots of excellent results from Whitchurch - my friend's grandson studied there, attended Leeds Uni and is now in New Zealand - he's doing astrophysics

Gareth Bale and Sam Warburton, both Whitchurch pupils have made their names in sport, and many more like them

"The damage it wreaks on people's lives?" What about the positives? I see far fewer damaged by the system than benefit from it in this county.

Where on earth do you live, Rollo?

I agree that we should never have lost the craft apprenticeships, a great loss. Over the years schools have had to drop a lot of practical subjects because of the insistence by succeeding governments that children should all be forced to follow academic studies until age 16. Fine for academic kids but less so for those with no interest or talent for the academic. On the plus side it has to be said that the education of children with learning difficulties has improved tremendously since the 50s.

Comprehensive schools, when properly staffed and funded, work very well. Our son has pursued a successful academic career and he went to a comp. His classmates have done fine as well.

He now does research into genetic conditions at Oxford, I don't think he'd have done any better at a grammar, especially not one like the one I went to.

Several 18 year olds will be leaving the group I run for university this year. All went to comps and all have excellent grades at A level and got into the first choice universities, one to Cambridge the rest to Russell group universities. Their lives have not been "damaged".

Thank God Cameron saw sense and removed Gove before he could create even more chaos and damage.

Well here you are, a few minutes googling reveals that Whitchurch High School is easily the biggest secondary school in Cardiff with what seem to be the best results of a pretty dire bunch. Maybe Errol is referring to Llanishen High School.

Cardiff

Willows High School 650 (Educating Cardiff)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willows_High_School

Eastern High School 900
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-31171983

Glyn Derw High School 400
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/plans-close-cardiff-secondary-school-8662395
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/all-about/glyn-derw-high-school

Llanishen High School 1700
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/wales-school-ratings-llanishen-high-6064897

Michaelston Community College 530
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/michaelston-community-college-governor-hits-9111659
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/glyn-derw-high-michaelston-college-9649003

St Illtyd's Catholic High School 750
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/the-kids-were-control---9095572
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/wales-school-ratings-st-illtyds-6063682

Whitchurch High School 2300
http://www.whitchurchhs.com/homepage.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitchurch_High_School
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/whitchurch-high-school-7540716

fwiw I can see why my Cardiff rellies have opted out of the state system.

I too am interested to know to which school Errol is referring

Exactly Supercrutch children should get the education they need matched to their interests and skills. Instead under both Jeremy Corbyn or Nicky Morgan/Cameron view of state education it is to be one size fits all.

A lot of people, especially boys, would be more than happy to leave the school system at 14 and move into a full time serious apprenticeship of 7 years. At the end of it they would be more than capable of earning a good living in a vocation of their choice. Just why and how Margaret Thatcher destroyed our system of craft apprenticeships I shall never understand.

Neither myself nor my family have ever suffered from the vicissitudes of the state school system apart from teaching maths for a year in Manchester. I just see the damage that it wreaks on people's lives and that makes me sad. Then I see the effects on the nation's economy and I weep.

The last person with any clout who wanted to seriously improve state education was Michael Gove. That brought him into full on conflict with the teaching unions most of whom have more in common with the ethics of the taxi driver monopolies taking on Uber than a professional body. Now we are back with the wretched Tory idea of treating education as a marketable product. Health will no doubt get the same sort of haircut.

The Welsh economy has not done very well since independence (of a sort) and the best and brightest still tend to leave. Who can blame them.

I'll watch it as I have an interest.

Which school in Cardiff is the worst? I am intrigued.

You can choose any large city area and point to poorly performing schools, Cardiff is no different to London, Birmingham or any other heavily populated city.

I agree that the majority of Grammar schools should never have been abolished, I attended one and my children all went to a Welsh Language Grammar in West Wales.

My grandson's primary school is Welsh speaking and is recognised as one of the 'feeder' routes to good higher education. I want all children to have the opportunity to receive the education they need not just those who have parents who can afford to either a) pay or b) have funds to purchase a property in the catchment area. That doesn't always mean an education based on academic subjects.

Undoubtedly some pupils need a more technical based learning environment. We have to recognise that not all children have the ability or desire to gain qualifications that society deems essential.

Of course all school leavers must be literate and numerate but to push them into a curriculum which includes subjects they will never use is a waste of school funds. With the current and growing use of computers these children know they can access information at the touch of a button and sadly this is being encouraged in some schools. Why then bother to learn subjects they have little interest in?

Cardiff has many centres of excellence and is on the forefront in the technical, scientific and medical research fields. As much as these institutions need highly qualified and motivated individuals society also needs skilled manual workers and our education system should make a pathway for them to fulfill their potential too.

Here endeth the lesson :-D

Rollo, you seem very bitter. Firstly, the NUT isn't the only teaching union, although it seems to be the only one you have a problem with.

My (truly awful) grammar school is now a thriving comprehensive, catering for children of all abilities not creaming off the top 5%. Excellent results year after year with a catchment area attracting children from all social groups. They also have a wing for children with learning difficulties who then mix with the other children for many lessons. instead of being hidden away in special schools and often left to rot.

Anyone can teach clever children, that's why grammar school teachers ran scared when comps came in. Too much like hard work for teachers of little ability. Finally they would find out that teaching children of all abilities requires preparation and hard work, plus good communication skills.

Some schools are truly grim, you're right. The emphasis on results has crippled the curriculum. What used to be good about comprehensive schools was that they were less driven by results than grammars but that's not the case anymore.

Children are tested from the age of 7. It's wrong and nothing to do with education. I'm glad I'm out of it but I loved the years I was in it.

well he's obviously looking forward to it :-(

having had what I think was a good education I think it's very sad indeed

Is it really amusing Erroll to see the destruction of young people's lives thanks to a c-p education ?

Here is a short piece written by a sixteen year old imprisoned inside the Gulag that is being constructed for people from 14-24.

http://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/2015/aug/16/i-am-16-and-the-education-system-is-destroying-my-health

so you'll have something amusing to watch then

Well when you consider that more than ten percent of Welsh schools are in the worst category and that one of the worst schools in Wales is a huge one in Cardiff, it should make interesting and amusing viewing

so much of this is what I heard when I was teaching in the mid-1960s, and then later from friends still teaching in the UK!

I taught in the last English county to resist going Comprehensive ............. there were lots of applicants for teaching positions in the Grammar Schools in that county from about 1963-1965. On the other hand, by the time I left, teachers at the school were applying for positions in private schools all over the country as the county got closer to "going Comprehensive". There was a 50% loss of teachers the summer I left ............ and I was the only one not leaving for another teaching position.

The county held out for another 2 or 3 years before being forced into the Comprehensive system.

I taught with teachers who were dedicated to their students .............. it was not just one or two, but the whole staff room. Similarly, I was taught by teachers who cared about their students.


I noted with a large degree of horror that the Grammar School I attended in the 1950s, built only in 1951, turned from an excellent school to a comprehensive in the 1960s, and then to an academy, and was finally placed under sanction because it was so bad in the mid-2000s, and finally to demolition last year after a new Academy had been built to replace it. That "new" academy is once again in trouble for low results.


I note with great interest that the English government is talking about resurrecting the Grammar School system once again.

The educating Rita and so on series takes the point of view, popular with the teaching unions, that learning should be "good" for the students and teach "correct" and worthwhile methods.

The problem is that the real world doesn't work like that it has a thousand years of know-how, guild art and entrenched product from high fashion to our line of work software engineering.

You will have noticed that there are "things" attached to your computer aka devices, be vaguely aware that such useful things as air traffic control, NHS scanners and yr ISP router are driven by embedded software and so on. This is sometimes called "low level" programming and includes such things as C++, Java and VHDL.

Yet when a young person comes for "work experience" usually I find that they have no idea or concept whatsoever about the nitty gritty of computing and care less. Their teacher is very soon up in arms about a "waste of time" even though the experience is valuable ( lots do$h ) and difficult to get.

OTOH take a graduate in, say, Greats, pure maths or Fine Art and they will have no problem at all getting into what is admittedly tough work. Why so when a top grade A level student in IT cannot ( unless they study outside of the syllabus ) ? The answer is not what you know but the approach to the problem that is the key.

Here is an example:
http://www.radford.edu/ibarland/Manifestoes/whyC++isBad.shtml

This sort of not joined up thinking infuses all walks of life not only I.T.

By far the greater part of teaching has failed to grasp this along with most politicians who see the answer as vocational qualifications and a return to rote learning.

Educating Taffy will be just another episode showing why students from state schools so rarely get beyond a certain point. Some hit lucky and find a dedicated and gifted teacher ( who will for sure be unpopular with his/her peers), a handful of state schools are top notch ( and you need to live in the right post code to go there.)

Meanwhile in an age when skill and know how will determine the prosperity of a nation we go on and on with mediocre educational methods which are admired so long as the children are happy and they don't feel driven to join ISL

It is perhaps notable that the media industries - music, film, commercial art, fashion are also the industries where the best people tend to escape from the dull grip of schools at the earliest opportunity. They also earn more money for the country than any other sector including mfg and finance.

The NUT scream all the time that they could do better if only they had more money / better salaries / resources etc etc etc. The real problem is that far too many teachers see themselves as essentially social workers and would recoil at any kind of educational rigor.

Another generation or so of this and Chinese won't be an option it will be essential.

:-|

If its anything like Educating Yorkshire.....I will look forward to watching it....

I remember chatting to BC at the time who so enjoyed the programme .....

Hope the teachers have as much character as the last ones

BC <3

Is it a long series?

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2015/aug/14/educating-cardiff-watch-the-trailer-for-channel-4s-latest-schoolyard-series

Ummm ... well they won't stop your postcode being a problem this way, might as well learn Chinese.

:-(