General Chat

John I have no idea what you are laughing so much at and this is certainly not a thread for levity.

Maggieinwinchester I can't see that ever changing unfortunately

These UN weapons inspectors are brave men and women. They must have realised they were in mortal danger trying to find the truth of allegations and counter allegations about these chemical atrocities near Damascus.

Convoy was shot at many times. One vehicle had to turn back but others got into area to do their work. No one has been killed or injured yet. But would you be that brave? Would I?

Nudged for GHeather

I would just like to say that I am NOT responsible for reporting john's post about me.

I have never reported anyone and have no intention of
doing so,but some days I am sorely tempted.

Looks like you were right about the UN being shot at Errol.

Emma

It certainly puts another slant on things Emma.

Although there was a supposed ceasefire in place to allow the inspectors to carry out their task it would seem that "somebody" (it is not clear where the shots came from) didn't want them to proceed.

Loads of obstacles put in their way and fear
this can only get worse.get the feeling other countries
waiting to pounce.

It certainly looks like some are losing patience.

Thoughtful piece in today's Daily Blue

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10266969/By-crossing-Obamas-red-line-Assad-has-forced-the-US-to-act.html

Thoughtful indeed Rollo and watch this space comes to mind.

I feel that Obama will launch his missiles and that Cameron
will follow behind as usual.

Emma

I agree that David Cameron and William Hague are both exceptionally clever men and skilful politicians, well in my view they are certainly skilful at manipulating situations for their own political ends and are exceptionally clever at hoodwinking the public. That said what we need if there is any chance of resolving this issue peacefully is Statesmen not Politicians and in recent years Statesmen are few and far between.

David Cameron experience is limited, prior to being elected as Leader of the Conservative Party in 2005 he held a few positions as a member of the opposition from 2003 and the most senior of these was Shadow Education Secretary from 06 May 2005 to 06 December 2005.

William Hague has slightly more experience, he has held several positions as a Parliamentary Under-Secretary in various departments, he was also a Minister of State at the DSS and Secretary of State for Wales. After his dream of becoming Prime Minister was shattered, when the Conservatives lost the election in 2001, he returned to the backbenches where he remained until David Cameron became Leader of the Conservative Party in 2005 and appointed Hague to the position of Shadow Foreign Secretary.

Numerous very senior and better qualified politicians than David Cameron and William Hague plus many senior officers from the armed forces have voiced grave concerns about any attack on Syria, not least because it could actually end up making the situation in the Middle East even more volatile than it is at present.

No one can condone what is happening in Syria, it is repulsive and barbaric, that said I do think that before any decision is taken to use the military option that all other options are fully exhausted. I think it was Sir Winston Churchill who was reported in 1954 as saying at a White House function - To jaw jaw is always better than to war-war.

There is much at stake in the Syrian conflict and one thing that is very much at stake is the standing on the world stage of Barack Obama, David Cameron, and Vladimir Putin, none of them want to lose face by backing down on their current position. In my view the key player is Vladimir Putin. I am sure that these three world leaders if they all put the plight and suffering of the ordinary people in Syria above everything else they could come up with a solution where none of them lost face and one which would result in Bashar Assad the President of Syria stepped aside.

Alas from numerous reports that I have been following on Syria, our Prime Minister and our Foreign Secretary are giving me the impression that they are hell bent on launching a missile attack on Syria. This does worry me. I just hope and pray that they will not use the plight and suffering of the people in Syria as a way of trying to boost their chances winning the 2015 election - let's face it, so far here in the UK, they have used the poor, the vulnerable, the unemployed, and immigrants, to try and do that.

I think the Prime Minister must explain in detail to Parliament what actions he is proposing, the full facts as to why he believes that this is the only option available, and he must also publish in full any legal advice he has received in respect of the legality of military action, he should also allow a debate on the issue and a vote on his governments proposals.

Unfortunately our constitution is such that there is no obligation on him to do any of these things :-(

OFITG did you mean to use the name Barabbas?

Surely you meant to say Bashar.

Barabbas means "son of the father".

Otherwise, I couldn't agree more with you.

eRRolSheep - when reading my post I noticed that and corrected it - thanks, nice to see you are paying attention :-)

No worries - it was an excellent post.

Well it looks like military action is imminent - the British parliament has been recalled.
As there are only a few days remaining of the summer recess anyway, it begs the question - why is parliament being recalled on Thursday?
I think we will see something happen very soon, a matter of days, because they were due back on Monday anyway.
Apparently there will be a parliamentary vote.

The other thing to perhaps consider is why is action being considered now?
Thousands upon thousands have been killed in Syria during the conflict. Over a million have been displaced.
But other countries did nothing.
Now, it is quite possible that chemical weapons have been used.
However, only a few hundred have been killed.
Ask yourself this - why did we turn a blind eye when many thousands were being brutally killed and yet are virtually going to a war footing and recalling parliament when a few hundred are killed and injured by chemical weapons?

Do the powers that be care about people being killed or are they more concerned about chemical weapons ending up in the wrong hands?

This whole situation is making nervous .....

I also wonder is the concern for "people". or "chemical weapons"

horrific

I haven't seen any news since this morning.
Wonder what has if anything been talked about
so far by the powers that be.

Emma

Emma - The Speaker of the House of Commons has agreed to David Cameron's request to recall Parliament and there will be a debate and vote on Thursday this week, so trigger not pulled yet - all very worrying.

Yes I saw that on Errol's post. I was thinking
about the phone calls that must be/or have taken
place, needless to say we will be the last to know.
As you say OFITG very worrying indeed.

Emma

There is no world government and no international law in the sense that any sovereign state needs permission from the UN to wage war. It is against the UN charter to wage "aggressive war" though what this means is anybody's guess. It did not mean Argentina invading the Falkland Islands or Russia grabbing two chunks of Georgia by military force where it remains to this day. And so on.

In all countries with serious military clout it is the prerogative of the executive to decide on the use of military force, or not. The legislature has the right to approve military budgets, or not.

I very much doubt that Cameron will allow a binding vote to the Commons this week. He may not even allow a vote at all.

Allowing the legislature to take over executive decision making is something that most Select Committee chairs with no hope of a red box think a very good thing. It is a dreadful idea.

Ugly though it is Assad is within his rights to respond to armed insurrection with whatever force he can muster. He is within his rights to enlist help from Hezbollah, the Russians and the man in the moon.

What Assad cannot do is to use chemical weapons or even own them whether signed up or not. That has been so since the end of ww1 - even the Third Reich did not resort to chemical warfare despite its expertise with zyklon b.

Allowing Assad to get away with this would turn the current delicate balance of power which maintains some sort of peace in most of the planet upside down, it would result in chaos. In particular it would void the calculations which persuade Iran not to build a nuclear weapon. So it won't be tolerated by the White House.

Brave Dave and the Tory Little Englanders can go along for the ride or not. It barely batters, the UK is not an arbiter of world peace. That MPs can consider themselves decision makers on this is absurd. It is for sure not in the UK interest to attempt to block or abstain from a probable course of action by the USA against Assad's regime.

Assad will get a sharp lesson. It will not be designed to swing the civil war one way or the other.

Where we will be at the end of next week is anybody's guess. Tyrants tend to calm down after a good kicking whatever their threats beforehand. An effective stalemate forcing all parties to the negotiating table would suit Obama and Banki Moon just fine.

OTOH if Assad and Iranian proxies try and reply with force the spanking will just be applied again as needed until they do get the message.

One thing you can be sure of is that the oil and gas traders will take full advantage. If you live in the sticks and use heating oil or bulk propane now would be a good time to get your winter delivery.