General Chat

Absolutely spot on PatinCyprus.

It could even be argued that the council tax she SHOULD be paying is the very same "pot" ultimately that enables people like her in the public sector to claim such a worthwhile pension in the first place.

Would she receive her superannuation/NHS pension if over the years everybody had refused to pay their Council Tax etc etc?

Didn't one of the parties have local income tax in their manifesto for the last General Election? Surely this would be much fairer than either Council or Poll Tax. People would pay based on their income and those with a very low income would pay none.

The pensioner says she doesn't spend much money and pleads hardship. She was a nurse, so was my friend. Friend has an NHS pension and she didn't do too long as a nurse.

The lady in question could have 2 pensions and be better off than most, food for thought - yes?

It amazes me how some posters can, somehow, change the whole dynanmic of a thread

It was a good OP, and there followed a lot of interesting points of view,

But, as I have an aversion to comments that begin with......

I think this, or that ,,,, and, I think June Farrow thinks this as well ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿

How can that possible be true .......

I do live in Norfolk ...and I know her village ....

but have know idea what she thinks ...... .......


EDIT .......
Excuse me John ....
but you have just written ----
"" she will be suffering through this upset and aggro. It will be affecting her health."

How do you know this ?

John! she has over 16 thousand Pounds in the bank...lets make that clear here she is not worrying about where the next penny is coming from, you make it sound like she hasn't got two pennies to rub together...she can AFFORD to pay, she is CHOOSING not to.

John I refuse to rise to the bait but I will say in my defence that I never once accused you of hijacking, I merely agreed with what another member said.
Please remove your comment sir

Why does this lady need Sympathy? she lives in a house she and her husband built 50 years ago so she probably hasn't had a mortgage for at least 25 years...what about the pensioners that have to pay rent?

My parents are roughly the same age as her and are quite comfortable, mortgage paid off 16 years ago when dad retired from his job in a Bank, it was only £40 a month anyway so no big deal.

My out goings are more than I get coming in so have to dip into savings each month....not exactly savings but lump sum from my pension I got early...shall I refuse to pay?

Sheila :-) :-) She could be sent to prison as she wants. It will be hard for a fairly elderly person, but it is the law and what she desires and deserves apparently. And it will cost us £6,000 a week as taxpayers to keep her in jail, I believe.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, she will be suffering through this upset and aggro. It will be affecting her health. No one wants to be worried about where the next pound is coming from at 73 yo. Not in the sixth wealthiest country in the world per capita, surely.

It can be argued that the 'system' is always unfair to somebody.

Council tax penalises those on their own (or a couple) in larger premises, whereas the poll tax hits households with a number of adults, and takes no account of ability to pay. I would hate to see a return to the poll tax, even though we would be potentially better off, and my Mum would relish it :-D - it was also a nightmare to administer. Perhaps Mrs Thatcher should have read her history books before implementing it :-)

I don't have any more or less sympathy with the lady in question than I would have for anyone struggling with bills etc. But you just have to bite the bullet sometimes and pay up.

"A sage decision OneFootInTheGrave and one which I shall heed myself" (Errol)

"Before Errol and OFG suggest I am hijacking thread"

John I have made no suggestion of that whatsoever and would respectfully ask that you remove my name from your posting which I personally consider to be baiting.

SueC. I hate to admit it, but I do agree with you that generally we have a good deal in the Valleys :-) :-)

Still not happy that so many elderly people todaty have to claim money and benefits via what we used to call means testing. Realise I am a bit of a dinosaur, but many of us like to steer clear of this welfare net - if we can.

This was Rev Arnold Ridley's complaint whne he retired as a Vicar. He had an income (including OAP) or about £12k a year. And a reasonable sinking fund which he wanted to pass down his family if he never needed it in his lifetime. (Edit) He did not want to have to spend his savings on basic life necessities simply because bills were outstripping pension increases.

Before Errol and OFG suggest I am hijacking thread, I suspect this is the very root of the thread. That an elderly lady and her late husband have worked hard and made "adequate" provision so that they can live reasonably well without having to disclose all their personal financial details to Uncle Tom Cobley and all.

She now is feeling very precarious financially - and I think CupCakes probably feels that - yes, we should all pay our dues - but that the lady in Norfolk deserves a little more understanding and sympathy than has been seen on this thread.

I think 'hi jacked' in the sense of 'gone of topic rather' John. as it has when you / I turned to what the rates are spent on re salaries etc...which is apparently not the gripe of the lady in question? ie she is not refusing to pay because she objects to what the money is spent on, she is refusing to pay beecause she thinks as a single occupant she is being 'overcharged' in comparison to others? That's how I read it anyway.

Hmmm I am in Caerphilly's boundaries, perhaps you might wish to read this:

http://www.caerphillyobserver.co.uk/news/892777/caerphilly-councils-acting-chief-executive-suspended-after-arrest/

I wouldn't withhold my payments because of that! I think the media reports will serve to punish them.

We get good value for money in the Valleys, eldest lives in posh Creigiau and they pay enormous amounts of CT for exactly the same services as us!

Thankyou for any respectful withdrawals. Your private decision, OFG - which is totally respected. :-D Thanks for letting us know ;-)
Thread hijacked 18 July 11.26 in my view. Would love to know YOUR definition of hijacking a thread, OFG. Or perhaps I wouldn't :-\ :-\ :-\

Another good thread hijacked so I am out of here :-|

Incidentally, I don't think it is wrong for a council to defer payments in certain circumstances. If a customer is quite elderly and/or in frail health and has no obvious close relatives to take over her house and assets, it seems ok to agree with the taxpayer that they agree in their will that the money will be recovered from their estate one day.

But it must be AGREED. In a sensitive way. I watch Heirhunters and sometimes think the Bona Vacantia department actually deserve the proceeds of the estate more than the distant and unknowing beneficiaries uncovered by Celtic Research and Fraser and Fraser.

One book I read about management was by Robert Townsend, who made such a success of Avis.

Townsend, Robert L. (1970). Up the Organization; How to Stop the Corporation from Stifling People and Strangling. New York: Alfred A. Knop

What I have suggested is more or less what he did to turn Avis round. He made the managers manage their own marketing, health and safety and human resources (or staff welfare as it was called when I started work). And his managers had to manage within a tight budget - and, yes, they could employ advisers. But within an agreed budget.

But when you have lots of resources, you can have lots of "staff" officers and support teams. When times are rough (and in local government they will be rough for at least another 5 years) you have to be ruthless.

Otherwise there just is not enough disposable income available. And water leaks out of every orifice. No one is happy. Not the staff in local government who are experiencing long pay freezes and extra duties, not the people who just cannot afford these bills (whether it is for local government, power, food or housing). Not even the highly paid local government officers who feel demotivated and worry about their depleting pension funds currently.

Is it right that CEO of Caerphilly Borough Council earns more than David Cameron? I know he/she can earn more in private sector. Well, perhaps that is the answer. A better managed private sector may provice jobs and community wealth to enable us to have all these services we so crave but simply cannot afford.

As the link on the OP wasn’t working last night, I couldn’t read it.

However, going by the report on the other one….

If the lady in question has more in savings than the £16k benefit cut off point, then she should use it to pay her Council Tax. If she carries on refusing, would the Council instruct the Refuge collectors to skip her bins, the Police and Fireman not to answer an emergency call, or the street light outside her house to be turned off?
She might secretly complain about the amount dedicated to educating children as she may not have had any who benefitted. However, the children of other people are the ones who will now care for her when her health declines.

Yes - a 25% reduction in CT for single occupancy may seem unfair. Margaret Thatcher did try to address this by introducing the Poll Tax where a charge was made on the individual rather than based on the value of the property. Look where that got her!

A sage decision OneFootInTheGrave and one which I shall heed myself