General Chat

What is this all about God, gospels and taxes. I thought this was a thread about a council tax protestor.

Vera

I don't have any problem with her protesting, she can protest till the day she dies as far as I am concerned, all the way from her local council to the European court.

I just happen to think she's wrong, and since she isn't here to answer the specific and legitimate points raised, then it is a pretty pointless exercise isn't it?

Three of us have made the comment about the Bible and paying taxes. Cynthia first, then me, then Errol. Not a usual triumvirate. :-) ;-)

Are we not taught in the Gospels to pay taxes?

A very very rough paraphrase is that money is provided by the state. The state makes laws regarding taxation. If money is due to the start through taxation then it should be paid.

I also think that Paul said in Romans that Christians should obey the laws of the land because disobeying law is tantamount to disobeying God.

Incidentally, I have just slowly reread this thread so that I have all comments in context and still believe I am owed an apology, as well as OFITG.

OFITG - your comment re the Mail was valid and certainly "on topic" unlike some (a few) comments.

My feelings are that this lady is not refusing to pay but is protesting against the fact that she, like all single (not just pensioners) is only given a 25% discount off the total bill. I have already said this annoys me and was just going to say much the same as her about half the use of couples, quarter the use of some families etc. However, having read Rose's post it made me think about the differences in use of services between singles/couples and families. I don't know which Governnent Department decided on this figure of 25% but it would be interesting for someone to do a study on how fair It is.

I still defend this lady's right to refuse to pay her dues (she does in fact pay a small amount each month) without the need to use her savings or sell her home. I would join her but its too hot for protest and I don't have her will to win regardless of the fact that she could end in prison.

Vera

I have no objection to this lady protesting but her refusal to pay her council tax must have an effect on the monies available to the council to the detriment of other rate payers - is that fair.

So lets expand the argument shall we? Why not half rates for childless couples or double rates for families with double the national average of children? Maybe single householders should only pay a quarter.


Council tax is based on the property not the dwellers. We must all take responsibility for managing our bills - yes it is a shame to move out of a family home but sometimes needs must. Please please don't let anyone go back to the Poll Tax system - that crippled us.

I don't think anyone is saying she shouldn't protest John. What people are saying, if I interpret correctly, is that she has every right to protest, but she should first pay what she owes and then protest to get the system changed. By not paying her bills she undermines her protest by breaking the law. If she was destitute it would be a different story. If we all protested in the same way councils would be broke and services would suffer.

This is really off topic. I just hope all the "holier than thou" posters on this thread who think it is so terrible for this lady to protest have never protested themselves.

I hope you have accepted speeding and parking fines with no protest. I hope you have never been on any Aldermaston march. Or attacked the police and forces in Northern Ireland. I hope you are shocked that 3 respectable men set fire to a bombing school on the Lleyn Peninsula in North Wales. I hope you have never protested against school and hospital closures, or joined Swampy in his protest against the A34 widening near Newbury. I expect you will not go on any protest re bedroom tax, benefit cutbacks, care home closures, Remploy closures.

You all seem such a law abiding group of posters who would never cause the authorities a moment of unrest (this last paragraph is meant to be sarcastic or ironic or mildly leg-pulling) :-)

But singles do not use only half the services that a couple use do they? the bins still are 1 bin to be emptied whether they are full for two peopleor half full for one, , the street lighting is the same, the police called to a burglary at the house of two people don't cost any less than they do for one person, local social services might be needed more for one than for a couple, one person might go to the library twice as often ( more time for reading if you've only yourself to look after!) One person in a car is the same as two in terms of not wanting to drive over potholes.....

I don't know off hand exactly how local council tax is used,(I have it somewhere) so I googled and the first result up to give an idea of general services was Neath http://www.npt.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=6052

She isn't in any danger of losing her house...............she is saving the £16000 for any future repairs to it.

My parents had small savings and a house that was sold after my fathers sudden death, the monies left were almost all eaten up by the residential care Mum had to have for the last 7 years of her life.

That was absolutely not what they wanted, but how it panned out.

There is a 2011 newspaper report which says: -

Mrs Farrow claimed she had to pay the reduced amount as she wanted to safeguard her savings to pay for essential maintenance on her three bedroom bungalow

Another report also says she has her own water supply and a septic tank - so no water rates for her either.

( It also answered my own question - no children just a dog)

So it does seem as though equity release would be ideal for her - just leaves the issue of not paying taxes!

I don´t think she is protesting about her ability to pay.
She wants CT for singles to be reduced to 50%.
Some hopes.

It would be interesting to know if this lady had children. Because then, it may be that she is really trying to save the house and her savings for their inheritance.

If she hasn't why doesn't she look into equity release. There are private companies and charities that can help her live in her own home without having to worry about repairs

I am one of those couples with a child still at home, is paid by the local authority, has had no pay rise for 3 years, seen all our household bills rise year by year, yet still manages to pay the bills.

My sympathies lie elsewhere .....if that makes me uncaring, then so be it :-| :-D

trees and vicars - off post?!! definitely

She could always take a lodger / new husband...it's what many elderly single women had to do in the past to avoid the workhouse.......


ok ok no I'm not serious lol... well not entirely, however it may well be something I have to do in the future if I wish to keep my home (the lodger, not the husband !) and be able to pay council tax.

I think anyone who has sympathy or thinks her 'cause' is fair and justified, should get out there with her and protest...if they feel so strongly. Get the Mail onside and make it a crusade ;-) ( but don't be too surprised if financially stretched couplesand single people under pension age who have to pay the full amount call them 'benefit scroungers' :-) )

John in response to you being

" upset if any authority treats them with a lack of respect, and think it is their right to lower their living standards, their life savings and try and push them out of their family home. "

This lady is showing a lack of respect for the rules the rest of us follow, however unwillingly. We all have to pay our bills or suffer the consequences...........and, as Hayley has said already, it will cost everyone else more to cover the legal fees .

She chose not to pay, has no need to lower her standard of living, her savings will adequately cover her CT charges and is not going to be pushed out of her family home.

What I will apologise for is writing posts that were too long and off topic. I am sorry for that.

And, yes, I do know how difficult it is to be employed by a local authority at present. Someone very close to me is employed in an admin job in an LEA and is being snowed under at present and has had no real increase for about 5 years and none on cards.

And I think the situation in 2005 when Rev Alfred Ridley protested (he was aged 71 at the time) was very different. Rates had been going up by a fantastic amount for years and years and I well remember on our new estate that 3 tree experts came out to tell us what native trees to plant and where. No problems with one tree expert, or better still a couple who are on contract without all the expensive salary add-ons. But three!!! In South Northamptonshire!! And the rubbish wasn't collected very well in those days either. And there were thousands of potholes then. And no grit in winter.

Sorry, another long one. I must be a bit old-fashioned. I think I would always sympathise with somebody in later years who is past working age and has worked really hard all their lives to earn, to save and make a difference. I am upset if any authority treats them with a lack of respect, and think it is their right to lower their living standards, their life savings and try and push them out of their family home.

Edit. Hayley. Vicar friend had lived in nice Vicarages with smalllish salary but quite a good standard of living for 40+ years. At 71 in 2005, he was retired and living in a small modern house with far less disposable income that he had previously enjoyed. And pips were being squeezed, and he was not happy to be paying a higher increase in rates than his increase in pension. And you will see from press cuttings at time, that almost everybody was on his side.

Hi John does your Vicar friend live in a Vicarage? Now I wouldnt support your friend it has nothing to do with him being your friend or that you support him, I ( me) just think as a Vicar he is a respected member of the community and this isnt an example I would expect him to be setting! Also local councils do not or most do not have wads of cash most are run on a very tight budget ask anyone on here who works for a local council and ask them when they last had a pay rise? Again I will ask who do the Vicar and the OAP think pay for the services that local councils provide and no doubt they use? And why do they think they shouldnt have to contribute when eveyone else has to? That question isn't directed at you John personaly because as you say like me you pay council tax yes I wish it was lower but no doubt there is some smart arse in my local community that thinks they shouldnt have to pay and has been taken to court again all generates cost to the honest abiding members of the comminity like myself.

The woman should still pay the amount she owes.

I personally read the OP as she shouldn't.

Really couldn't care less whether I misread the OP's view as she hasn't had the courtesy to return and acknowledge replies.