General Chat

OTIG I find your post 09:14 interesting and would be interested in debating the points you highlighted at a later date But until then I will refrain from comment apart from the "Thatcher's secret plot to dismantle the welfare state"

It was not a secret plot, It was work/research done into what the affects would be, Which is what all governments do on a regular basis as part of their duty in regard to basic housekeeping and budgeting for the future, All governments including Labour have done the same work/research on most areas where public money is spent, notably in recent times with the defence review 1998 they called it a Strategic Defence Review (SDR) to justify cutting defence, which I was part of and can assure you that it was not based on the Strategic needs or requirement in today's changing world as people where led to believe but it was a budget requirement and budget led (Cutting our cloth according to what we could afford)

Roy

Can we just let the lady be buried & her family have closure .she will go down in history as First woman Prime minister who did her very best for her country .its a pity she didnt reign .longer we would not be in the mess we are now / she stood up to the unions & EU .who the heck do we trust i for one have no confidence what so ever in politicions of today .enough said !!

Thank you......I am not a political animal as you can probably tell :-D

KittytheCook, the most likely answer is that many of her policies, the combined effects of them, have made them more or less irreversible.

excellent post OFITG beautifully written :-D

It is 23 years since Margaret Thatcher left office..............why does she alone get blamed for so many of the problems today :-S

I genuinely don't understand why no government before or since her time in office is criticised alongside her...............or am I missing something here?

Margaret Thatcher accomplished many great things during her time as Prime Minister, however the social cost of many of her policies are still affecting the lives of many ordinary people today. She will be remembered as the first female prime Minister, a formidable politician, the person who curbed the trade unions, and as a leader who stood up for the United Kingdom on the world stage.

However she will also be remembered as a the person who with her friend Ronald Reagan, as the person who initially loosened the controls on the financial institutions, and that is when the seeds of the current financial crisis were sown, she will also be remembered as a very divisive Prime Minister whose ideologies divided many areas of our nation.

At the time she came to power, the strikes during the winter of discontent had shown that the trade unions had got totally out of hand and the country was being held to ransom by them. Unfortunately Margaret Thatcher used, a sledge hammer to crack a nut, by opting to use confrontation to deal with the situation, as she did not want to negotiate with the trade unions, she wanted to destroy them.

Many strikes were crushed, the most notable being the coal miners strike, the result of her industrial relation policies are still with us today. During her premiership unemployment soared to nearly 3 million, at the time it was said it was a price worth paying. Was it, as what this did was to provided employers with a large pool of cheap labour, in short take the job or leave it as there was no shortage of takers. We had now entered an era of cheap labour that we still have today, one where the bosses get rich on the backs of the less well off.

Her views on the welfare state are well documented, just do a search using - "Thatcher's secret plot to dismantle the welfare state" there is plenty information to be found on her views about, the welfare state, the NHS. Schools, and housing.

One of today's biggest social issues is the shortage of what is referred to as social housing and that can be directly attributed to her policy of giving people the right to buy their council house. This was in many ways an excellent policy, where it failed was that councils were not allowed to use any of the funds from the sale of the houses to replace the houses that were sold off. The result of this is that we now have literally hundreds of thousand of people seeking an affordable place to live while on the other side of the equation we have thousands of private landlords charging exorbitant rents which is one of the reasons the housing benefit bill is so high.

Baroness Thatcher, the first woman to rise to the highest political office in the land, a formidable politician, a great orator, a great defender of Britain on the world stage, but alas someone who will be surrounded in controversy for many years to come - R.I.P.

Interesting to see that the grocery shop where she grew up is now a holistic medicine shop.

I am truly surprised that some people really think it was Margaret Thatcher alone who made the Countries decisions, she, like most other Prime Ministers, are only a mouthpiece.

Another thing I did a double take on, was on a man interviewed on the radio, the interviewer asked him what he thought about the death of Margaret Thatcher, after a real belly laugh, he said he had been waiting 20 years for this day, and every year had kept a day back from his holidays, waiting for "this moment" so he could celebrate, but his real celebrations would be on the day of her funeral :-( and he thought Margaret Thatcher was wicked :-S

Interesting point made by SylviainCanada about what Margaret Thatcher achieved as a woman. I suppose if you look at the "big picture",that the same thing would be true not only for the UK,but for the women of many other nations as well.She certainly did make a difference, and was an inspiration to women around the world.

Margot.

Thank you,Errol Sheep for an interesting thread,and to the people who have contributed to it.

Here in Australia the Melbourne Herald Sun newspaper devoted the first 3 pages of today's edition to her death,with the front page having a huge headline "Farewell Maggie" with a photo of her face taken from when she was in power.Beside this was a quote from David Cameron,"We've lost a great leader,a great Prime Minister and a great Briton."Beside the giant headline were the words "The world is paying tribute to the Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher who died last night.She was 87." At the top of the page was written "Margaret Thatcher 1925-2013."Then the next 2 pages were devoted to her life
and her accomplishments.

Like her or loathe her,she was a strong woman who always stood up for the things which she believed in.She had no hesitation in expressing her strong opinions and didn't suffer fools gladly.She will be remembered for being the first female British Prime Minister and for being a strong and capable leader for 3 terms, and for many other things also.Whatever you thought of her,you couldn't ignore her!

RIP Baroness Thatcher.

How I go along with all that Sylvia says.I was also brought up in Manchester,went to school during the war,passed scholarship for High school.
Was put in Latin class as In those days you had to have that language to go to uni...no grants,even had to pay for all the school books.
Parents couldn't afford for me to go to uni,so had to get a job and give wage packet to mother and got measly spends back.

Had a job at ICI for which I had to have at least 6 O levels...there till I had to leave when I married and no women could have children and work.
How times have changed.
I turned that around in my 30's and eventually ended up with my own business and was a workaholic..

I admired Mrs T for her work ethic and I do believe she was an inspiration to so many women ,giving them a belief in themselves that had been played down for years.

Im not a feminist,but question would all this go on if it had been a man in power during these years?..and if she was so bad why did Tony Blair carry on with some of her ideas?

Unfortunately it is, Sylvia.

is it hereditary???

Now Mark Thatcher will become Baron Thatcher with voting rights in the House of Lords.

Now,there's one to ponder!

Hayley .............


I'm not that much younger than your mother ......... and I do well remember those times!


I lived about 9 miles away from Manchester, and the town I lived in was in fact a matriarchal society ......... the women ruled!

Behind the scenes, that is ................ the jobs available to them were nursing, teachers, shop work, cotton mills, etc. And, just like your mother, most of them had to stop work when they married.

You got permission to do something from your Mum, and then she told Dad what he was to do! It is quite funny to look back and realise what went on.

My mother had to leave school at 12, as did Dad. She won a scholarship to the Grammar School, but her parents wouldn't let her take it up, because it was WW1, she was the eldest child, and had to go out to work. She went straight into the cotton mill, and eventually became a velvet weaver, which is a very specialised job, but left when she married at 25.

As a result, she was keen on education for her children (which she also had later in life) ....... and told Dad what my brother and I were going to do!


I have no idea what Mrs Thatcher's home life was like ............ but she was certainly encouraged to go for higher education, which was not all that common for her age group, or in the 1940s.

Even in the 50s, girls at the Grammar school I went to were encourage to go to Teaching College, and not to a university. Several of us did buck the trend, but it was not without much effort, and support from our parents.


I never ever intended to suggest that you, or anyone else on this thread, mocked the "burn the bra" brigade ................ but it was a fact that it happened then, and it can still be heard today.


I was never ever a member of it ............ never comfortable without a bra
:-) ................

I'm a feminist in the sense only that I want equal rights, equal opportunities, and equal pay .............. to do the same job as a man, if I want to (no desire to be a fire fighter, do military service, or lots of other jobs), and equal pay if I am doing the same job.

I like having doors opened for me, men offering me seats, and having all the other courtesies .................. but I also open doors for other people, including men, as well as offering courtesies as necessary. I never miss the chance to say Thank you .............. and hope to always get a thank you back in return!


I do appreciate the fact that the out-and-out feminists opened the doors to more jobs for myself, and for the next generation after me.

As a side note ........ my daughter is an architect .............. how many architects were there in the 50's and 60s' (rhetorical question!). In 2 years, she and another woman will be the 2 Senior Partners in the firm ................... incredible!




and Mrs Thatcher was one who made that obvious to young women all around the world.





actually ............... I didn't know your mother was from Manchester!!!

Going off topic a tad here but I couldnt agree more with you Sylvia with regards A B C and D and if I may say so as I have done so before and you must be bored of reading it, but my own Mum who is coming up to be 82 yrs , she was the youngest of 9 children and from probably the roughest area's of Manchester, however she was very bright, she didnt marry until she was 27 and had her first baby @ 30 this was late for women from her back ground, she was a nurse and when later went in to the civil service. She had to leave when she married. I am appalled at some of the tales my mum has told with regards female status at this time, so even though she never burnt her bra she and I certainly do not mock the bra burning brigade, I am not a feminist because I enjoy being to much being female and a pampered princess, however in the real world I also can be totally independant again thanks to my Mother and of course couldnt even begin to imagine a world where we wasnt treated as equals. I certainly salute these very brave women from history.

I think one tends to forget what she achieved as a WOMAN


as the first, and only, female Prime Minister of the UK, she ...........

a) showed that it was possible for a woman to do that job

b) showed that women politicians could aspire to do more than just be an MP, or be a local councillor

c) demonstrated to young women and girls that there were more jobs open to them

d) showed married women that they could have marriage, children AND a profession



and that's just for starters.


Most of you were not young women in the 60s and 70s and probably do not know just how restricted possible "jobs" were for women!

Feminism had arrived in the 1960s, and while people made (and still make) fun of the "burn the bra" brigade ................ feminism was actually a rebellion about the control of men over women, the lack of entry into professions for women, etc.

I'm old enough to remember that time, to remember the jobs that were open to me ..................... teaching, nursing, secretarial, etc ................. and the jobs that were practically impossible to get or even aspire to ............... doctors, lawyers, head of companies, military service on the front lines or as officers, etc.

By making it to the top job in British politics, whether you like her politics or not, she opened the eyes of many people, and opened doors for thousands of young women.


It is ironic that her exit from politics was not due to the British public voting her out, but to the activities of men in her own Party who disliked her and her policies.

Amen to that x

I didn't always agree with Mrs Thatcher but by golly what a woman! I had the greatest respect for her as a person and sometimes as a Prime Minister too. Strength of leadership is what this country needs and she certainly had plenty of that to deal with Europe and the Falklands.....In my opinion, that is.

Eternal rest give unto her and let perpetual light shine upon her, may she rest in peace.