General Chat

Gins. Source of the first point is this thread, early on. It ceased in the Council of Trent apparently which was 16th century. It was a very long and very informative post (was it Muffy?)

My earliest known ancestor was a Roman Catholic priest - incumbent of a parish in Worcestershire about 1300AD. My 18x great grandfather in direct paternal line. And he he was obviously a family man as many priests were in UK till the Reformation. All priests and all parish churches then came under the Bishop of Rome the Pope), of course.

As to today, bit of guesswork and reading of Thornbirds. Just feel pretty sure that in remote parts of the world rules are interpreted to suit local conditions. Hope somebody with more knowledge can either confirm they think I am right or not.

Gins posted


"And Catholic priests did marry and have families until less that 500 years ago in UK. And I expect they get married in parts of world today - just don't tell the Pope.


Please, ref your source?"

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I must admit I was very surprised by this comment.

I was of the understanding that celibacy had been the rule in the Catholic church from around 800 AD, after all Western Catholics had come under the rule of the Pope.

Of course, many of them did live then in common-law relationships, and had children, especially in remote communities.

and we all know that certain Popes had children from common-law relationships ............. witness the Borgias, who also indulged in a little bit of murder, poisoning, and other skulduggery


BUT they were supposed to be celibate!


The Anglican Church is the result of Henry VIII's disagreement with the Pope, who refused to grant Henry a divorce .............

......... but the priests, bishops etc were all celibate at that time.

I’m so pleased you get on with your SiL, despite his religion!

Strange, us Caths!

Why would people with 'outside Christianity' not understand why there are two main strands? That's a basic fact taught in schools / picked up in youth. I'm sure most people have heard of the irish Troubles.
In fact there are lots of 'strands' of Christianity, likewise in most other religions. Unfortunately the media may use 'Protestant' and 'Catholic' when referring to different strands/factions of Christianity, but only refer to, for example, Islam - ignoring the many strands/factions within that religion - the cause, like those within Christianity of many a war.

In it's most basic term, one faction believes the way it worships / looks at life is better than the other sides and tries to get the other side to do what they do.

I have no religion, but have attended many a religious service - of all denominations.
The most disturbing was when I accompanied a friend to a 'born again' church. The pastor kept saying 'There is a 'sinner' amongst us', or a 'non-believer' - and looking at me. This went on for a couple of months, until I got fed up with being 'categorised', and made my apologies to my friend.
Suddenly the Pastor disappeared - it transpired he'd been having an affair with a member of the Community - who had committed suicide.

So who was the sinner?

Who was the hypocrite - me, non-religious, just accompanying my friend, or the pastor - who didn't know me - accusing me?

A number of years ago...during the time when I was so much younger and explored religion to see how I felt about it...I read that popes from days gone by (middle ages as i recall) used to keep mistresses.

I'm sure that's also where I read that the celibacy thing is to do with financial concerns (reluctance to support any subsequent children legitimate or not).rather than any deep set religious reason.

Hang on John, people outside of Christianity might just know a lot more than you presume.

You had 36 years as a heathen, I had 44 as a Christian so stop assuming you know everything about everything, i cannot unlearn what I was taught. I do not need preaching to neither do I need an explanation concerning the huge or subtle differences between the two main Uk faiths.

Have some humility please. You are not the keeper of the scrolls, most of us have had a look!

My Daughter (Cof E) married a Catholic. She wasn't too sure at first and to be honest and neither was I.
BUT GUESS WHAT my son in law and I get on like a house on fire and GUESS WHY its because we dont talk at all about Bloody Religion. We just get on with the simple things in life.
I won't be contributing to this thread anymore as I think it has ran its course. I just wish that the OP had just been a simple yes or no answer as already been mentioned but leave it to the religious fanatics to continue with it. You can call me what you like but I wont be back to answer.

Gp

And Catholic priests did marry and have families until less that 500 years ago in UK. And I expect they get married in parts of world today - just don't tell the Pope.


Please, ref your source?

Yes, priests should be allowed to marry


BUT ...............

No-one other than the members of the Catholic Church should have any say in the matter

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Absolutely


Until you have been there!

I fully understand,

to assume is to presume is to get it wrong......

Errol. Behave.

I have had conversation after conversation with Muslims, Sikhs, Taoists, Atheists you name it. To them we follow Christ. One Muslim said to me "Catholics are not part of the Christian church, are they?".

People are confused why Protestants and Catholics are so far apart on some things. I am often confused myself :-S :-S

If anybody else says I am goading, insincere, condescending - I think I will explode all over the internet. It is making me very very crabby, to be honest. :-(

Sylvia I did not refer to you as a bully or felt I was being bullied I just want that noted.

As a child of a C of E mother and RC father but brought c of e I feel I have a half a say on this :-D Not that I think the Pope will take notice, as a child I desperately wanted to be RC I would of sold a kidney for a white holly communtion dress and vail and white gloves I wanted the pretty beads and then be parading round the streets with me mates and everyone said awwwwwwww ....

I dont think Priest should marry and to answer your earlier question No I wouldnt like to be married to a Priest I am not needy but I dont ever want to be the other women :-D

I don't necessarily see why people outside christianity would not understand. Of course they would!
Bit of a fatuous thing to say in my opinion and antagonistic on this thread.
John, try and join in informed debate without goading please!

A lot have posted on this particular thread, Hayley :-D :-D

Had no idea anyone was having a go at me either. I just put my four pennyworth in and, if it looks a bit religious, maybe (just maybe) it is because I am. 36 years as better heathen and atheist that anyone on Genes, 30 years with a committed and deepening faith.

I am now the boring old religious freak that I used to poke fun at for most of my life!!!!!

Many thanks for comments about the Creeds, Sylvia. This was about prayers that Catholics and Protestants can say together. I suspect there is so much more we can agree on.

And it is important, because people outside Christianity don't understand why we have two main strands. One strand with married priests, one strand with celibates. Same way many do not understand why there has to be two main strands of the Islamic faith.

And Catholic priests did marry and have families until less that 500 years ago in UK. And I expect they get married in parts of world today - just don't tell the Pope.

no I was not calling you a heathen ......


I do try not to be aggressive, and not to bully, or even seem to be bullying

the posting where someone said they were heathen has disappeared


as it was also the post that used the phrase "religious types" ..........


..... my posts also sound irrelevant.


I do love people who post, run, and then return to delete their message .. NOT!




I posted on this thread simply to answer a question posed by John re the two creeds ................


.......... and I guess I should apologise to the rest of you who seem to believe that research and interest aroused by a simple comment should not be part of posting on any thread.



I had not previously posted on this thread, because I consider the question to be a non-question.


Yes, priests should be allowed to marry


BUT ...............

No-one other than the members of the Catholic Church should have any say in the matter

Absolutely spot on Hayley. Well said.

I do hope Syvlia you are not referring to me as a heathern as I'd be very hurt and very offended and even though I often find your posts agressive and feel you are talking at me rather than to me I know you dont normally go out of your way to offend anyone.

I am just tired of debates threads being over run with people insulting one and another for believing or not believing the question is simple " do you think priests should be able to marry....the answer should be yes or no and a reason if you choose to give one, we dont need pages and pages C & P from the net or bible quotes ,how often people attend church or giving sermons that is not debating its preaching and thats why people are getting annoyed or simply cant be bother posting.

actually I prefer to call myself an a-religious person ..................


I'm not religious

I'm not really a heathen

I'm not agnostic

I'm not athiest.


I just do not get the happiness, comfort and, pleasure might be the word, that lots of people do get.


Nor do I like the bitchiness that goes on within the church community in so many cases ............... OH comes home from church, and talks about Mrs so-and-so, and Mr this-and-that, and how he dislikes it.

He stays because he literally loves church music ............. if the choir director were ever to leave, then he would also stop attending.

For full disclosure, he was raised in the Methodist tradition, his grandfather was a Welsh Methodist, and he went to a Welsh Methodist school.




But that does NOT mean that I do not believe that religion is extremely important to very many people ........


and I will not denigrate anyone on the basis of their religion or their beliefs ..................


and I do not believe that they should be denigrated by anyone else, of the same, a different, or no religion.




and I do realise that this is way off the topic of the OP!



but that is the way conversations, in real life and in the internet world, sometimes go.



To go back to the topic ...............

.............. the Catholic Church will elect a new Pope in a couple of weeks time, and I am certain that the question of priests being allowed to marry will once again be asked within the Catholic church .........


........ and they really are the only people who should have any say in the matter!

As a RC....nope!

I have a faith, but would not want to marry a priest, in the sense of today's 'priest'

.....he cant have sex!

I can still recite all the books of the Old Testament :-P

that just makes me an atheist with a really good memory :-D :-D :-D :-D