General Chat

Hi Mau,

It's been years since I heard the word Dicky. I think it was changed to head lice a more appropriate term I suppose.

When you buy the lighthouse privately, will we get an invite when opened :-D :-D

GP

She must have been a relation GP as ours was known as Nitty Norah the dicky explorer ;-) :-D

Hi Mau,

Our nurse at school in Gateshead was called "Nitty Norah" the Nit Nurse.

GP

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1988776.stm

I've used the term for years ....'let's get down to the nitty gritty'
let's sort out the problem etc. and have never heard it used as a racist comment! polictical correctness gone mad!! :-|

Searched for a Geordie definition on-line and see it being used for a comb? when at school in the forties and nurse visiting days ( which was part of life in those days) they were always called nit combs...never ever heard of nitty gritty combs.. *sighs* not nit-picking . ;-) ..time moves on I suppose :-S

Anyway live and let live is my motto, if folk want to live together and be happy that's great........wish all the world could come together in this way <3

CuriousFish

You'll get no argument from the majority of us on this thread.

It has taken intervention by the government to force clergy into public discussion. No bad thing but each religion should certainly have spoken without being prodded.

Equality means just that and is inclusive. You cannot pick and choose which people you want to apply it to. Gay people deserve equality in the UK and it's long overdue.

Sue

I'm the Mum of a gay daughter, and she and her partner intend to marry. I love them both dearly and fortunatly they live in NZ ,a country that is not opposed to gay marriage.

There is so much harm done in the name of religion, that I wonder at those that are so opposed to gay marriage.
And what right do governents think they have that they can tell religions who they can and cannot join in mariage.

Who are we that we can determine the fate of an individual who just wants to be with the one they love.
One meaning of the word gay mean 'good as you' and gay couples are. <3

Gins I had a similar experience many years ago at a senior management meeting. Without knowing, I called someone a VERY rude name. I can still see the look of horror on my colleagues faces as I, in my naïvety continued talking. The lady taking the minutes almost collapsed with laughter, and to my utter bewilderment was joined by everyone in the meeting. At coffee break I was told what the word meant, I went back to the meeting and apologised, I was told not to worry as it was the best laugh they had for a long time. Sometimes innocence is bliss.

If that was so then I'm pretty sure it would say so somewhere on the web. And distinguished linguists would have heard about it.

All I can find is references to that theory being untrue.

Edit-

I've emailed the museum mentioned and asked them

My Dad does a lot of public speaking...I shall ask him to insert it into his next speech..usually around very politically correct aware pollicemen and see what happens............

"Where it does come from isn't known. It is one of the many phrases that use rhyming reduplication, for example, namby-pamby, willy-nilly etc. It is most likely that the rhyme was formed as a simple extension of the existing US adjective 'gritty', meaning determined or plucky. "

I've used it all my life and never heard it used in any tyoe of derogatory fashion.

My son who is at college, sometimes uses the P word (which I pull him up on), the P word is used by his mate there, who is Pakistani.

Also in usage there is a phrase I won't put here which Urban Dictionary translates as :

"its a name you give someone that your ( 'you're?) homies with,
also you use it when your (you're) proud, or happy about something

Its like saying my man, but more gangster and cool,"

Gwynne. I would have to check this out, but in Olney there is a Newton and Cowper museum. Newton was a slave ship captain before he became Rector of Olney and wrote "Amazing Grace". And I understand they found the term in diaries of these early slave captains like Newton. They do have some of John Newton's early papers in Olney.

Wish we had a black American on these boards to comment about the conceivability or otherwise of it being an old word. :-) But it was a word that you had to avoid using in public meetings and training sessions, and probably still do.

Edit. Sorry AnnC . It was just an aside - didn't mean it to get so much discussion. Will drop it now.

If it's so racist why if you google it are there so many stores and merchandise using it lol....not to mention all the many sites where they debunk the suggestion that it originated from the slave trade at all...




There is no evidence to support the suggestion that 'nitty-gritty' has any connection with slave ships. It may have originated in the USA as an African-American expression, but that's as near as it gets to slavery. It isn't even recorded in print until the 1930s, long after slave ships had disappeared, and none of the early references make any link to slavery.

The first reference that I can find of the phrase in print is from the New York Catalog of Copyright Entries, Part 3 - Musical Compositions, 1937. That lists a song titled 'That Nitty Gritty Dance' which was copyrighted by Arthur Harrington Gibbs.

The phrase isn't found in print again for some time and reappeared in several newspaper citations in print dating from 1956, for example, this line from Alice Childress' novel Like One of Family:


"You'll find nobody comes down to the nitty-gritty when it calls for namin' things for what they are."

Another is from the Texas newspaper The Daily Journal, in June 1956 and comes from a piece which gave examples of 'the language of 15-year old hepcats':


"She buys, with buffalo heads, ducks to the local flickers, but they prove to be corny and along comes a nitty-grittygator in a cattle train which she hops."

Unfortunately, the Journal didn't include a translation, but I have it on authority of several US contributors of the correct vintage that, in that context, a 'nitty-gritty gator' was a 'lowlife hip dude' and a 'cattle train' was a Cadillac


...............from the phrase finder site.

John, didn't you read the link? The term was first recorded in 1956 and a linguistic expert says it's inconceivable that it was in usage since the days of slavery.

That's inconceivable, not unlikely, inconceivable. So no connection with slavery whatsoever.

I got 'done' a few years ago, I used the expression 'N G' when delivering a workshop for the Home Office management team.

At break time, I was shuffled to one side and told that I shouldn’t use such racist language. I apologised and explained that I had no knowledge of said expression being racist.

I then asked the lady why is it racist.......she didn’t know, it just 'was'

I kept my mouth firmly closed but couldn’t help wonder....if you're going to challenge someone for their use of language, it might be helpful, to know what you are talking about!

The word 'Parrot' came to mind

The term Nitty Gritty could have come from anywhere. imho it has always meant to get to the heart of the matter and nothing else.

GP

Word meanings do change very rapidly. cf Love thy Neighbour (comedy TV progarmme that was popular). Also, there was an American black comedy of my youth that would not be shown now.

Just think Terry should be more sensitive with language he uses, that's all. Fair enough he makes his points, but he will just get reported if he isn't more considerate.

nor me

me neither

imho whatever the origins of the phrase..which appears to be disputed......over the centuries it's become acceptable so i won't lose any sleep next time someone wants to get down to the nitty gritty of the issue..

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1988776.stm

Out of 500 slaves on a tpical slave ship from Africa, 100 died on voyage and 100 died before they had been in US for 12 months. All fit and young when they left Africa. And I understand this was a derogatory term used by slave ship crew for what was in the bottom of the boats when they docked and offloaded. :-(