General Chat

I am not arguing Jax...just know that rules change with the years,especially in education .schools changed from High schools... grammar schools....comprehensives were not known in my day and girls separated from boys.
Think they relaxed a bit during the 60's but the 70s was when things changed the most.
In the 50s,all school books had to be paid for and uniforms strictly adhered to.
Latin was essential to get into uni...ridiculous I know,but it does give a grounding for lots of other languages....look at the word for window.... Fenestra in Latin, fenetre in French and in Welsh.........Ffenestr......so although a dead language is good when learning especially a Latin language...
I know it helped me living in Spain to speak their language.Not saying I know Welsh,,but can understand a bit and speak odd phrases .I find it hard to learn to speak fluently,but I can even recognise different accents and words used in various parts of North/ Mid Wales.
I love living here and get on with lots of my Welsh friends whatever their politics.

A good Welsh girl always wears a stovepipe hat rather than pointy one, AnnC.

Companies used to come round the Universities in final year on what was called a "milk round" Used to be loads of them. And banks were represented. Many of the Welsh boys seemed to go to be teachers, Ministers of religion or civil servants.

Very few did not get a good job. Today, so much unemployment and so many graduates that any job is really good to have.

Ouch :-D :-D :-D

I know what I'd like to do with a pointy hat right now :-D :-D :-D :-D

sits with Sues and Sandie ,neither do I,,,,, and dont like stage plays or musicals.,,,,,,, :-(

I dont mind a pointy hat as long as it fits....... ;-) :-D.

Can I join you in the ' D 'corner Sue ( not fussed on the hat tho ..messes my hair ).
I gave up on English Literature O level ( damn that probably looks bad now on my CV) , tho I am artistic as in Art and Pottery... got my A levels in those.
My Biology teacher always said my diagrams where too sketchy , didn't stop me passing that tho !

Oh sorry am I on the right thread ? I just saw ology mentioned :-S

I am not argueing just find it strange that you needed O levels in the 60s but not in the 70s
My year was the 1st year that had to stay on at school until 16 and if I wanted to do O levels I would have had to stay on an extra year until 17....my parents were not going to allow me to do that when it was easy to get a job...Yes we had to work our way up from the bottom but that was usual. First time I came accross anyone who had been to Uni in the Bank was in the late 80s

Apparently (according to a professional who tried to hypnotise me) I have a mathmatical brain not an artistic one.

That explains why, for fun, yesterday I took some algebra tests to see what I could remember...lolol how sad is it?

Open to debate :-), but I 'think' there will be less written poetry and prose "lost" in the Celtic languages than one might think?, because they followed more the strong oral tradition of story telling, song, poetry, rather then written.

That some will have been lost is likely, that a lot survived to be told in a language other than the 'original' is probable?

I am no expert, Gwynne. Wish I was as knowledgable as you (honest :-))

I doubt the standard has dropped that greatly in the Eisteddfod. I think early years of 20th century were probably best. One year (Eisteddfod at a little Welsh place called Birkenhead) there was a lovely entry by Eifion Wyn, a shephed from near Bala. Unfortunately he had been killed in action in France and they draped a black cloth over Chair.

I was thinking of a point made on about Page 310 by Sue (I think). Lot of money thrown at Welsh books these days that don't sell. Now if my Welsh poetry skills were not very good and I was offered £1,000 for writing a few poems, it would not be Dylan standard. Probably not even up to standard of William McGonagall (1825-1902) :-( :-( :-(

That's such a shame, Sue. As one of my favourite poets said -

"Most people ignore most poetry because most poetry ignores most people,"

John, if it was that good surely Dylan's dad would have wanted him to learn about it - he was a literature graduate, after all.

I love the old Welsh tales and poems but the modern stuff seems quite banal by comparison. Maybe the best writers, like Dylan, now write in English.

*sits in corner with pointy hat with a huge D on it*

I loathe poetry, always have since school.

Thanks Brenda. I thought I had a sharp memory till I came on chat. It is only on here that I have found out I am a hillock with total memory loss :-D :-D

Yiu can only appreciate poetry and prose in a minority language if you have some familiarity with that language. And words and constructions never translate perfectly into one of the major world languages like English, Mandarin etc.

Many thousands have found delight in Welsh poetry, in being able to understand the lovely englynion on gravestones that tell them so much of the characters of Welsh ancestors.

How much of that heritage are we losing? There must be so much written in Irish, Scots Gaelic, Manx, Cornish, and many minority languages. Natural and heartfelt prose of our dear ancestors. Perhaps we are in too much of a rush to make everything conform to what we are happy with :-S

Think I will have to agree with John here regarding qualifications for jobs.
It may have altered later,but in 1951 I had to have at least 6 O levels for my office job at ICI.
I think banks then wanted A levels and As you had to pay for university then..no grants..my parents couldn't afford for me to go ,even though I'd been prepared for it in the Latin class...as you had to have Latin then to go to uni.
This was not in Wales,but there weren't as many students then as you had to go to work and go to night school to further your education..
Sorry if this has gone off subject ,but in this case John is right.

Dylan's father David was an English Lit graduate who believed English a superior language, although he and his wife spoke Welsh fluently and he occasionally taught it. Dylan would have had Welsh speaking friends and he could have learned the language properly had he chosen to but he didn't.

Dylan grew up steeped in English poetry and prose, his father would recite to him and that's where his love of poetry and language came from.

I very much doubt that money was in his mind when he began writing, BK. Not many poets get rich from their writings.

But Dylan was a genius. Thanks goodness English was his chosen medium, imagine his genius being lost to the English speaking world.

DT had a father that taught English & DT could not talk in welsh.
He also knew if he was to write in English he would sell more to the public.
He also knew if he was to write in English he would have many more words he could use.
That is why he would always write in English.

Jax. It was 1963/64. I hope someone will confirm my memory that you needed at least 4 O levels including English and Maths to get a bank clerk job. And I rather think it was 2 O levels at least for post office clerk job. I remember taking an entrance exam aged 16 with about 100 others for 2 Post office clerk jobs in Walsall at that time - because I think I was waiting for my second year of O level reults and doubted I could improve on my first attempt of only one O level.

I came well top out of about 100 and had a job offer, and realised I was not so twp (dull) as I thought. Then got my O level results and asked dad if he would allow me to continue to A levels. Parents were very supportive. And I never needed the Post Office job. :-D

Gwynne. Don't think reason DT chose to write in English was for any higher reasons than that he was not very familiar with Welsh at all, he could reach a much greater audience through English anyway. and he was very gifted in English and it made him sufficient money to fund an expensive lifestyle. Can't think of any Welsh language poets who made much money - unless they sold their chairs on EBay.

O levels to get a Banking job in 1970?

My dad started working for bank in 1970 aged 34 no O levels

I got a job with the same bank in 1974 but turned it down and took a job paying £1 a week more....but returned in 1979... I have no O levels either

I also had a friend who worked in Nat West Cornhill

Looked back at my post, can't see the word stupid there, John. You must have been imagining things, as you'd know if you'd bothered to look higher up the page and check.

Dylan wrote in English because he wanted to, living where he did he could easily have brushed up on the Welsh he did have, but chose not to. He mastered the English language which has far more words, particularly descriptive words, than Welsh, as I said before, which is why it's the choice of many poets who speak two or three languages.

BK Think we tend to get our quals to get better jobs. Needed 4 O levels to get a banking job. Bank said an Economics degree would help my banking career further. Got quite a few more post grad quals for work in my 20's and 30's - marketing, personnel.

Never studied Welsh academically. But went to evening classes at the London Institute in early 1970's and attended Welsh literature summer school at Coleg Harlech each summer between 1970 and when I met my non-existent wife in 1976. Met loads of leading Welsh authors and poets. After that it was sun-worshipping in the Med twice a year till we started our family:-D :-D

Gwynne. You implied that Dylan Thomas wrote in English because there are more words to express himself. Was merely pointing out the reason he did not know a huge number of Welsh words was that he did not speak Welsh. I would say that was clarification, not being patronising. Was it not you who suggested I must be a bit stupid to not appreciate that Canadian poetry. I did like it - just does not float my boat like much of Welsh poetry with its clever alliteration and internal rhyming.