General Chat

John I am confused. on 23 April you said (when talking about hell).

"The creed we all recited (Methodists, Anglicans, Baptists, RC, URC) when we were young always said "hell". It meant somewhere horrible, hot and smelly. I notice now it seems non pc to say hell - we have to say Hades. But there is no difference to me - still same terrifying place"

I am confused because I don't remember as a Baptist reciting any creed. I do remember learning the Anglican creed but thatw as because Iw ent to a CofE primary school. I actually don't remember a lot about hell being mentioned at all in our church which when I attended was very much an evangelical church.

AnninGlos I am inclined to agree with you - I am not aware of a creed in the Baptist church

Would that be reference to 'The Apostles Creed' John

I believe in God the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth:
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,
Was crucified, dead, and buried:
He descended into hell; <<<<<
The third day he rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
The holy Catholic Church;
The Communion of Saints;
The Forgiveness of sins;
The Resurrection of the body,
And the Life everlasting.
Amen.

Yes, Rose. And the Nicene Creed which is shorter and one I remember. These creeds became part of the basis of all established Christian churches. RC and Anglican, and am pretty sure they were root of Baptist Church and all the others.

Nicene Creed was drawn up at Council of Nicea (in modern Turkey) in 4th century. Some Bishops led by Arianus challenged the belief that Jesus was of the same substance as God ie they challenged the established view that Christianity was based on one God in three persons or personalities. Arianus and a few of the other Bishops believed that Jesus was a separate being and was the Son of God and the Holy Spirit was not God but a spirit.

After much debate, Arianus was declared an heretic and he and his followers were thrown out of early Christian communion and the Nicene Creed was drawn up to teach truth and avoid error through succeeding generations.

Not knowing much about the other branches of the Christian church, I had to google.... :-D

It appears that whilst most mainstream churches agree with the doctrines contained in both the Apostles' and the Nicene creed, they don't all recite them.

That's a very vague explanation but I hope you get the drift. :-)

That was my take on it too Cynthia which is why I was puzzled about the comment about Baptists reciting a creed.
Thank you for your clarification (will PM you with some news later too)

http://ecclesialtheology.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/do-real-baptists-recite-creeds.html

I defer to Errol. I have been in joint services with Baptists when we have all read the Nicene Creed but it appears that many Baptists have the slogan "no creed but the Bible"

I'm afraid reading some of the comments on that link John, leads me to believe I must be thick, because I don't understand some of them :-S :-)

I remain a simple soul, for whom words, though I value them greatly, mean less than 'instinct' ( don't know another word that covers what I mean...'spirit' perhaps? ).

Rose :-D :-D

Know exactly what you mean. I love the Nicene Creed in particular. Mainly because I attended a very Bible teaching chapel in 1990's and they had excellent midweeks. Twice a month, a retired Baptist pastor (sic) who had been trained as a C of E clergyman (sic) took us through this creed.

Three years it took, two hours a month. So over 70 hours of wonderful God-honouring study. Each midweek we would start by reciting Nicene Creed as a group.

And I often bring it into a service down here - and many afterwards say how much they liked it, had not recited it for years etc. :-) :-)

You're not alone Rose. I looked at that link earlier and came off .... a) because it was American and I wanted comments from the UK and b) I couldn't follow it. :-D :-D


That's the problem with some teachings, they go way over people's heads....when actually, what we need is a simple, down to earth explanation.

When you say about 'instinct', do you mean the 'feeling' you get when something happens - in that the essence of something transcends words?

One of the church services that I have enjoyed most of all in all of my life was just before Christmas, a few years ago, in St Felix, Sousse in Tunisia: http://soussechurch.org/

At the time that we said The Lord's Prayer, we said it in our own language; the Christmas carol sheet was printed in several different languages; and it just felt really good. :)

I was glad that we were able to visit the church during our holiday.

Now that makes me think of something we say regularly Joy......."The Lord is here, His spirit is with us"........all one in Christ. :-)

Cynthia. "We claim the promise that where two or three are gathered together in His name, He is here in our midst for the purpose of blessing us all."

Joy. Sousse sounds wonderful. I attended an ecumenical church on a large housing estate near me in the Rhondda recently. There were 8 different languages - English, Welsh, French, Irish, Madagascan, Spanish, Polish, Rumanian. We said Lord's Prayer together and it sounded very harmonious in 8 languages.

We also had alcoholic communion wine out of one silver cup. Drove home a bit zig zaggy - but keep that a secret between us :-) ;-)

Nothing like a bit of exaggeration to help things along John........tuts! :-D


You're simply describing the way Anglicans take the wine each Communion service and, don't forget, it IS mixed with water :-)

It's the celebrant who has the biggest problem as he has to finish the chalice - none of the consecrated wine is to go to waste. Very strict rules on that.

Interestingly my oh was brought up a Methodist and attended church regularly until joining the RN in his teens, then he attended my Baptist church. He doesn't even recognise the creed and says he has never heard it spoken in church. Maybe things have changed now then.

Thank you, John and Cynthia. :)

I can't remember the creeds from my free church days either Ann.

It's really the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches who give them a prominent position in the service.


You're welcome Joy...... :-)

glad I am not imagining it then Cynthia. I am pretty certain that we didn't have any congregation responses as there is in the Anglican church.

We recite the Apostle's Creed in my church every Sunday, but no longer include the line "He descended into hell." I don't know why - I must ask.

Since Pentecost is almost here; I wonder if anyone has thoughts on the gift of speaking in tongues? I have visited churches where it is commonplace, but have never heard it in my church. I am told that you only have to pray for the gift and you will receive, but it hasn't happened. On second thoughts, that may be too deep a question.?

Ruby. I have never been able to speak in tongues. When I first became a Christian, I thought nobody knew more than me, nobody had more gifts than me. Don't think I was alone in that. A new Christian feels so confident, so full of Christ's blessing.

There are far more Christians than we think who have this gift of tongues. Often they do not tell you as they feel you will not be impressed.

I now hold the view that we all have the Pentecost gifts to some degree. In my case a very small degree. Tongues (0/10), healing (2/10), prophesy (3/10).

But I feel sure that, if I was sent to a foreign country with no health service, God would grant me sufficient gifts to be able to communicate and heal. Might test that out in near future.