General Chat

Is it me? or do the words 'Parish relief" and "alms" smack of charity rather than what people have actually PAID INTO from their wages being converted into benefits when they are needed? what next? workhouses? Now there's an idea! shove 'em all in together where you can keep an eye on them and get some cheap labour at the same time......

That aside, I am sure no one really believes that the majority of people claiming benefits are fraudulently doing so, but of course those that are must be stopped. ...just not at the expense of the genuine claimants.

Sue It makes me so angry too. I cannot tell you how angry it makes me feel. Just so glad I am not reliant on benefits at this stage of my life.

But I am not sure who we need to be angry with. It is easy to blame IDS. To blame ATOS. But as I understand it, IDS is planning a shake up like we have not seen since Beveridge. I may be very naive, but don't think the main motivation is to save money. I rather think IDS wants to be a Beveridge Mark 2 and leave his mark on history - and not the same sort of mark that Tony Blair or Mrs Thatcher have left.

I am angry with people who steal money from the welfare budget and have caused this reaction from the Government. I see so many people daily that I would have no hesitation in giving alms to, without any form filling. And so many I would immediately arrest and have tried for fraud.

John you said: I do think some of the genuine cases need to be counselled by a body like ATOS (or a Parish Relief Board) who can really find out what people can do and if there is any way the authorities can help with training, finance, marketing etc.

ATOS do see genuine cases and are employed to reject their claims. No ifs, ands or buts! Each medical case is unique to that claimant, guidelines are useless. As exposed during the undercover reporting 'if the claimant can move one finger they are employable' WHERE FGS?

Just have a read through the many disability forums and have pity for genuinely disabled who have been turned down.

This just makes me so angry I'll have to log off before my short fuse reaches the explosive!

Rose, notice you put "up to". I think ALL of that money applies to me and that is why I am so grumpy about it.

My bank manager is pushing me to repay my £20bn overdraft. You have identified where £12.25bn may be lying. How many years can I back claim?

Seriously, I think you put your finger on the nub of this problem. Most tax payers are only too happy to fund benefits when they are genuine. And also, may I venture, happy to fund overseas aid as long as it workd and relieves abject poverty. Even if the bills increase slightly, and our tax bill increases slightly.

But they are not happy to fund this culture of benefit fraud They are not happy to fund moat cleaning and cat food. They are not happy to pour money into Indian quangos when India can fund a nuclear weapons programme (yes, I know aid to India is likely to stop soon).

I reckon I can tell a benefit fraud and a genuine case within seconds - most of us could. I do think some of the genuine cases need to be counselled by a body like ATOS (or a Parish Relief Board) who can really find out what people can do and if there is any way the authorities can help with training, finance, marketing etc.

My daughter told me last night that a friend has established a small business in Darlington with a low interest loan got through a Government scheme. She now employs two part-timers and is thinking of expanding further. Nothing like that was available when I started a small business in 1996, and how it would have helped. The first two years are really critical. I did quite well in terms of customers and sales, but only just survived and lack of cash flow continually hampered my plans to push my little business forward.

A few years ago the lady in the job centre gave me the nod that if I 'asked' for a particular benefit I would get it ( can't remember what but it may have been the self employment 'run n' of council tax benefit..or similar anyway) , but if I didn't ASK no one would tell me about it... and that is one of the things that those who work the system know, they research what can be claimed.

BUT there is a counter argument ( financially ) to tightening up the system, making sure everyone gets what they are genuinely entitled to...and it is that far from cutting the benefits bill it may well increase it. For eg:

"'Awareness' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17139088)

"The DWP has outlined data on the various income-related benefits that were not claimed. The latest figures, which refer to 2009-10, include:

Up to 620,000 people failing to claim up to £2bn in income support, and employment and support allowance
Up to 1.6 million people failing to claim up to £2.8bn in pension credit
Up to 1.1 million people not claiming up to £3.1bn in housing benefit
Up to 3.2 million people missing out on up to £2.4bn in council tax benefit
Up to 610,000 people failing to claim up to £1.95bn in jobseeker's allowance

I have been pilloried occasionally for my views about benefit fraud. I do think it is a big problem and needs to be addressed vigorously. And yes, so does tax evasion amonst the high earners. It is theft in my book either way.

But there is also the other side. Those like Jax who cannot do what they would like to do and I was very grateful that she shared some of the process and the frustrations of getting due benefits. It is an eye opener, although I panic every time I have had to ask for something like council tax relief. Few genuine cases are as hard and determined as Joey Boswell.

And also the elderly who have earned a lot and live in large houses. For various reasons, many of them cannot really afford to live at that level in retirement. But they don't want to uproot from family home and now they are faced with mansion taxes, gas bills that make eyes water and loads of maintenance expenses.

i am fine right dandy thanks
i am glad you have somebody to help you

some go it alone but there's help out there if people need it
there's nothing worse than the stress and worry of this taking so long to sort out
and the financial difficulties while it goes on

my heart goes out to those who are suffering :-(

Treehunter

It took 13 months for mine to go to the tribunal. I did'nt really know how these things worked and did'nt take any notice of the previous ESA letter I had while waiting.
So won the tribunal and only got back pay for six months, when I queried it thats when I found out I was reassessed (without medical) earlier in the year so should have appealed against that decision back then :-(

Anyway phoned them up and they let me put in a late appeal.

Just make sure you have written evidence to take with you....unless you send it to them before hand

I have got someone to help they call DASH. Thanks

I wrote to ATOS and not happy with the reply. I am away at the moment so going to phone DASH to see what else they can do for me when i get back home

Hope you are ok.

Hazelx

treehunter

get CAB or a local benefits officer to handle your appeal
dont go it alone and they will give you all the support you need

GOOD LUCK

Thank you Joy for putting this on. As you know i have got a appeal going on with them. Told me could take up to a year for them to get to mine. Never mind how ill its making me and others like me with the worry of it all.



Hazelx

Thanks Joy.x

Sorry, I’ve not made myself clear....I am not arguing the point of a ‘particular’ article

I am arguing the superficial and non substantiated remarks in the ‘presses'

I.e., making claims on any un represented minority?

I believe it because I have been through it...I also know others who also have had problems.

There is a medical questionaire that is filled in before the medical...at the time I said I could walk 15 to 20 metres, why did it say on my report I could walk 200 metres? she did'nt see me walk that far. Also she said I had no problems with my upper limbs....does my right hand which is usless not count?

These so called doctors just sit behind a computer and it is down to the decision makers to decided whether you are fit for work or not...who have never even met you

only if i know its fact
or sometimes i may give them the benefit of doubt if it seams likely

but mostly NO

I agree & second with what Joy said again.

If people think this is not real or it's not going on, maybe you should start to listen to what others are saying. Read the artical to the end, then read underneath to see what others are saying, go to other sites. Do your research on this subject & then post what you think.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nurse-makes-heartfelt-apology-after-1340838

Yikes, Joy.... I agree with some of the notions. I am asking...do you believe, what is written, in the press?

YES Gins
i do believe it

Ive seen this happening to real people i know :-(
they are letting down the sick and disabled of this country

while giving billions away to countries that can afford nuclear weapons
but not feed their people

and to grease the palms of the governments officials of other countries :-S

Government...they pay nothing


...me and you, pay


I’ve not read the article, but remember Scottish Parliament, have different laws to the English/Welsh

....and, it’s a newspaper article!


You don’t believe it do you, without some research?

fingers crossed for you Sylvia XX