General Chat

I've got one, but not on the Jewish side :-D

In 1871 my grt x 3 uncle and his wife were jailed for 3 months hard labour in Essex. The charge was for 'keeping a bawdy and disorderly house' also described in a newspaper report as a 'house of infame'.

He wasn't mentioned in his fathers Will!

I would have loved to have found a brothel keeper in my family :-D

My judgment is that yoiu were a beautiful bride, Maggie. When you say the brother of your great grandda was a sullen little sh*t, how is that putting yourself in his shoes. Is it not an opinion or judgment either by yourself or someone closer to him?

I am beginning to think I am a lot less judgmental than either Sue or yourself. But you do look lovely in that photo (seriously)

I don't judge my ancestors, I put myself in their shoes.
Some (g grandmother for a start) were hypocrites - she told my gran she shouldn't marry my grandad as he was 'soiled goods' ie a widower.
This was a year after she'd married her 'husband' of over 20 years, and had 9 children by him - why the marriage?
His first wife had died!!!
Methinks (in fact I know) g grandma wanted granny (eldest child) to move back home to help her with the younger children as, at 47
- g grandad was 62 - she was about to have child number 10!!!

I also want to understand why another g grandad's brother tried to derail a train ,and why he was living in a place 'other than with his parents' (well, mum & stepdad) in a small village.
Newspaper reports lead me to believe he was a beligerant so and so, but I want to understand more. What made him a sullen little sh@t when his brother (my g grandad) became a policeman and was a very moralistic, but kind man, according to my (slightly wayward in her youth) gran?

This is interesting

http://www.english.uwosh.edu/roth/Prostitution.htm

I doubt my life would fill a book, John.

Hurray. At least we can communicate on this thread, Sue. Can I write your biography and you write mine.

Suspect you will come out a much nicer person :-D

I don't think of my life as boring John - but it would be by a lot of people's standards I'm sure. A very ordinary life but satisfying with hopefully a lot more to come.

Most of my ancestors were hardworking ordinary people - ag labs, road workers, ship builders and mariners. The backbone of the country I should think. Some poor as church mice and others who did well for themselves. The decisions they all made make me who I am today including my parents who brought me to Australia because they believed I would have a better life here.

Sue You must give the biography writers of historical characters a wide berth. I have never seen one just present facts. Suspect no one would buy it anyway.

Have just been thinking of my "boring" 66 years today. So much that nobody knows, much I don't want them to know. But I have stood in 11 Downing St talking to Kenneth Clarke, I was a college friend of Lord Elis Thomas, I had Sunday tea when I was 7 yo (1953) with my "uncle Frank", his elderly mother and Billy Wright, who was then soccer captain of England, I was top grocery manager in UK in 1976, nearly bankrupt, Methodist preacher for last 13 years and I was an atheist till 36yo. List goes on. And my life has been pretty boring, probably boring in comparison to yours..

I look at my ancestors and wonder what they did in their lives - their high points and achievements. And there may be several biographies there. And we would judge them, I'm sure :-) :-) That would be the enjoyable part for me.

I said I would never judge my ancestors, John simply because I think it unfair to judge them by our standards.

I don't judge you John because I don't know you - I judge the things you say at times.

I judge all of mine, Sue. If I have sufficient facts to judge them. Most I judge to have been quite nice and hardworking and honest. One or two (usually at top end of society) I am deeply ashamed to be associated with. One was involved in slavery, one booted Irish people out of Ireland for Cromwell.

And I would not like to have a brothel keeper in my lot, though I would record it and not hide the fact. But given the choice of being poor and respectable or making a fortune out of slavery, clearances or brothel keeping, I would choose poor and respectable 100 times out of 100.

Life involves judging - you have just judged me. ;-)

How very judgemental you are John. I never judge my ancestors - life was so very different to what it is today.

According to Wikipedia, prostitution per se has always been legal, Merlin. Quite right. But doing it on the street has been a criminal offence since 1824. And running a brothel has always been an offence too. So Mrs Braham was breaking the law.

Yes I thought it was the best of the series - and very interesting. The photos from the photographer looked excellent, and he certainly played a major part in saving many lives in WW1 and was a real hero. The brothel was certainly a world I knew nothing of (pleased to say). But I would have been mortified to find someone like that in my ancestors. And what would Detective's ancestor have thought as she went about her business in the synagogue - just at the time when early Jewish immigrants were trying to establish themselves in late Georgian and early Victorian society? Families like D'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Disraeli, Nigel Lawson's gt gt grandfather etc.

I did not enjoy the first half hour as we have had WW! in nearly all of this series up to now in one form or other.

It got miles better then.

But we have to remember her profession was legal in those days.

Also I was very surprised they thought Rosa was Lewis Child, was she as if one of her daughters was in the profession and he had a child out of wed lock she would have had the surname of her grandmother.

But at first Lewis was spelt Louis then Lewis so in some instances to me it did not add up.

I think that prostitution was Legal in those times.The programme was good,a little bit about WW1,her relative got killed, the rest was a laugh. I wonder if Bill Roach will have it in there that he was an Officer in the Arab Legion,? as for lots of things being wrong :-D it was,nt Eve eating the Apple it was Adam for trying to eat a Pear. :-D :-D

Really enjoyed last nights programe.

Elizabeth: Was she to take the alternative route and try and bring up 4 children on her own without money. She used her initiative and did well from it. Of course, if it had been 2012, I would not have thought it a good course in life to take, but things ARE different now.

Interesting that she had the first house recorded in 1827 (the year her husband died). Perhaps he was like a modern day pimp? and ran the house with her! Then again, it was in her name - but who else would he have left the house too?

It was nice to see her looking after her grand-daughter Rosa.

As for Alex's reaction to Elizabeth's profession - Mol Flanders came to mind!

Can't wait for William Roach next week.

Dee

Firstly I enjoyed last nights episode

Who knows what a mother would do to keep her fatherless children fed and housed. In those days there wern,t benefits to be had

Anyway John

Prostitution low and on a par with slavery??????

If it wasn,t for MEN there wouldnt be any prostitutes Get it :-)

BC Am amazed that you think there are worse things that the "oldest profession". I am not sure I agree with that at all, and I am a man arguing with a lady.

Any profit from anything illegal that belittles the humanity of others is wrong. Fagin was wrong. Drug dealers are wrong. In 100 years, would you be praising a drug dealer for his entrepreneurial spirit.

But, for me, prostitution is even lower down the scale. It is on a par with slavery even.

Wonder why her husband died in 1827? So young.

Well i enjoyed last nights programme. Very interesting and as I've
learn't over the years not to be judgemental of anything I find out
whilst researching my or anyones' ancestors.
What would I have done in their shoes??

Next week William Roache.

Emma

Well I thought it was a very good programme and I would have been very proud if my ancestor was the enterprising Elizabeth who showed she was a shrewd and clever woman who was left alone to bring up four children. There were worse things than running a house of ill repute, in my opinion, and I was full of admiration for this woman.