General Chat

I agree that these riots have nothing at all to do with immigration or race.

However, imho I'd rather leave a view I didn't agree with up and engage in a debate rather than stifle someone else's point of view by requesting it's removal.

Whether we agree or not EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion.

I only ever report posts in cases of personal abuse....and haven't done so for a very long time x

Yes, i did! having written a long and reasoned argument as to why it was inappropriate of Rita to connect the riots and immigrants in her post I thought "sod it you are banging your head against a brick wall here...just ask GR to remove it!"

But for those who care to read I still have most of my response...

"Rita, I will say it again, what have immigrants to do with this? nothing!

What is a young white lad from Birmingham? not an immigrant! a 20 odd year old from Salford spouting crap about immigrants taking the jobs...he will NEVER get a job because he hasn't got a brain!...he's not an immigrant...what is a black kid fron London whose grandparents settled here in the '60s? not an immigrant.

You may very well be right on some points, but your whole argument is lost when you bang on about immigrants as if they are somehow the cause of everything wrong in this country. It goes much deeper than that, to the greed and lack of compassion , to the ME ME ME generations encouraged to be like that.

Go to a hospital and be bloody grateful for the immigrant nurse who cares for you, go to the shop which stays open late and be grateful for the immigrant who works unsocial hours, get a carpenter who actually turn up and be grateful for the immigrant.... and then look at some of the wasters we have in this country, born in this country, who will never leave this country...and who have no pride in, or respect for,this country."

And if Rita wishes to report my post , or anyone does , they are most welcome to do so... I have had enough of the closet and not so closet racism that has been spewed onto these boards at times without let or hindrance. (though to be accurate it is less than I have seen elsewhere in the last few days!)

There is no proof that immigrants took part in any of these riots...it is a blind assumption , an easy target, another 'excuse' which sounds remarkably like the excuses given by some of those rioting!

It is up to GR to decide if it broke T & Cs...in my opinion it did... I don't normally report posts by people who have an opposing view to me who put it well and with some degree of back-up for their opinions ( and I have 'backed-off' a large number of times with deference to age, or fragility from saying what I think of posts) ,but as said I am sick to the back teeth of the knee jerk 'send them back to where they came from' attitude that is the 'socially acceptable' face of the creeping nastiness and bigotry of the far right.

If this offends I apologise, but it's how I see it and you won't have to put up with my view much longer anyway.

Ruth, It is not just London but Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol and other towns and cities where we are having the copy cat rioting. In fact we had people killed in Birmingham in a car incident.

In New Zealand, the media haven't yet put a particular label on those rioting/looting/killing. I hope that people (including media) stereotype people they think might be involved as branding people by race, culture and/or economic status just fuels the fire. By now there will be some very invisible, educated and political groups organising all of the violence. It is very sad, and I must say those those of us who have done our OE (overseas experience) are distressed to see our 'London' being violated. Sad sad sad. What is happening is not an indictment of a whole country, it seems to me as though the practices of multicultural living and democracy have been abused. Human Rights are what keeps ordinary people way more civilised than any extremist. Where would I rather live - the UK or the USA - give me the UK every time!

In New Zealand, the media haven't yet put a particular label on those rioting/looting/killing. I hope that people (including media) stereotype people they think might be involved as branding people by race, culture and/or economic status just fuels the fire. By now there will be some very invisible, educated and political groups organising all of the violence. It is very sad, and I must say those those of us who have done our OE (overseas experience) are distressed to see our 'London' being violated. Sad sad sad. What is happening is not an indictment of a whole country, it seems to me as though the practices of multicultural living and democracy have been abused. Human Rights are what keeps ordinary people way more civilised than any extremist. Where would I rather live - the UK or the USA - give me the UK every time!

It wasn't me. I wonder what Rita said????

Wonders if anyone will admit to pressing the RR button????

And, William, I see nobody being 'smug' as you call it. I see people who care very much about our country and the deprivation who are trying to get their heads around a situation that has errupted and pondering the reasons.

I see they didn't venture out in the rain. My OH said yesterday, 'We need rain, that'll keep them in'. So he was right.

Hear hear Helen..very well said !

Hi William,

As Suzanne said, what are the underlining issues???

There is no excuse for lawlessness and definitely no excuses for depriving innocent, hardworking people of their homes and businesses.

There is an underclass in this country that has been allowed to get away with awful behaviour for far too long.

Everyone is welcome to demonstrate peacefully but the extent of these riots proves that a lot of people have no respect for their own neighbourhoods.

I have no sympathy for any of them until they grow up and either realise they live in a community and must act accordingly or else until they move on. No-one wants them.

Hi Maggie, why aren't we both tucked up in our beds!

I don't want anyone to starve, lol!

When I say children I just mean the younger generation.

I do feel that this lot only respond to money so therefore withdrawing their free access to money and then negotiating on it is an option.

In our family we earn our pittance and have had to pay for our own kids to go to college, at a cost of over £500 a month each, because we are just over the cut-off limit.We have no disposable income. But we would never steal, along with most people.

I really object to paying for other people's kids when they contribute nothing - there is something that everyone can do for society that suits their circumstances. I do think this is where welfare should go. In other countries this would be the norm.

I am not a socialist because I think "society" lets us all down at present.

HI Helen,
I agree, something has to be done, but witholding benefit payments will leave the childen in a worse state if their parents are particularly feckless.
You can't have people starving!

Some people (not just youngsters) do live in a 'me' situation - I believe it started in the '80's, so that's 30 years of some people believing the rest of the world owe them what they want, to contend with!!

The rioters weren't all from the 'underclass' (I hate that term),many had blackberry's (which I, who work, can't afford), and cars, and were wearing expensive clothes.
Quite a few of those charged had well paid jobs.
They just had no morals, forethought, sense or empathy.
I should imagine, for a few, the riots were a 'bit of a thrill', for others, a 'bit of a laugh' - with no thought for those who they affected, those locked terrified in their homes, those left homeless, because they didn't notice, consider or even care that the shops they set fire to had flats above.

They weren't on the streets protesting - they were out for their own, for want of a better word, 'satisfaction'.

I admit I haven't read all these posts but wanted to add my ha'ppen'orth to the first few pages that I absorbed.

I am not very old but I do see that subsequent generations have bred youths with no past and no future. They live a "me" generation _ even some of my own children are totally selfish_ and they have no idea of community.

They have no respect for police or government, and why should they have because they see neither and just live feral lives?

I don't know how, as a community, we can solve this, What I do know is that we have been so lax, any discipline will cause outrage and further trouble because these are undisciplined children causing much of this. The fact that someone was shot dead is sad, but totally rrelevant. He wouldn't have wished this.

I do wonder if it would be a good idea to stop all welfare payments to everyone unless you make some contribution to community/society? In other words we don't care how poor you are/what country you came from/how many kids you have/ but if you need money then we will help you but to earn it you must visit old peoples homes/pick up litter/support the police/work at a charity soup kitchen or whatever.

As a tax-payer I don't want to pay for anyone who doesn't contribute to my society any more.

I really want to help the disadvantaged..........but they need to payback. At whatever level they can manage. That's life.

PMSL- Just heard on the radio - no trouble in the North of the country - it's raining heavily!!!!

Wooses!!!

Just shows that water cannon, or even just fire hoses would have got them running - they don't want to ruin their designer hoodies do they?

well said maggie as always.ive said the same thing but got shot down as usuall.x

I'm intrigued too.
There were teenagers, children, and adults with responsible (and in some cases well paid) jobs.
We're all suffering from the economic crisis.
We're not all rioting, killing, committing arson or stealing.
Perhaps we're the 'wrongdoers' for not joining in!!

so the underlying issues are??

I've just been through nearly seven pages of all this smug condemnation and no doubt we will hear a lot more from most of the speakers in the debate later today in Parliament.It matters little if all those convicted are jailed and the keys thrown away.

However if you ignore the underlying issues surrounding these events,they will come back to bite you again and again.

yes,perantal control has gone out of the window.x

yes,perantal control has gone out of the window.x