General Chat

It always bothers me this Adam and Eve thing, the first humans, our ancestors who had sons.... it is the first of many stumbling blocks to me in interpreting the bible literally, but anyway...

Either God created us all, whatever our sexuality, or he created none of us surely? ... my mix of genes and hormones etc decrees I am heterosexual, a slightly different combination of those genes and I might have been homosexual ( bisexual or asexual I suppose).

It may not be natural to you, Rita, but it is to them.

People "get away" with things all the time. The EDL visited a local town and threatened and abused local muslims. The police let them "get away with it" as long as they moved on. Sadly that's what happens a lot of the time in all sorts of cases. Fortunately the muslims didn't rise to the bait so the EDL didn't get the confrontation they wanted and left looking a bit daft.

Gwynne

If you believe that God created Adam and Eve (which I don't) then you probably have to accept that he also created homosexuality, I'd have thought. If God created everything then he also created the love that people of the same sex feel for each other.

And people shouting abuse at troops are arrested and convicted you can read about it here -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/11/luton-guilty-soldiers-baby-killers

Gwynne

It is enough to make me despair it really is! I managed last night NOT to send the reply I wrote in anger.. I won't rewrite it , Uggers and Gwynne have put it better and with more brevity :)

But i will say I can accept no validity in, or respect for, the bigoted opinions of someone simply because I accept
( and defend) they have the freedom to think such things... if that were the case that everyone's opinion is "valid" . then the opinions of tyrants and purveyours of hate and genocide would have the same 'validity' as that of Saints and prophets...I won't EVER accept that .

Sometimes an opinion is just plain WRONG.

I agree to a certain extent, Sue. But there are views on here that would hurt people, that's why I had my say.

Rita, you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. In this country you *cannot* say what you like, that was my point. There are laws to prevent the expressing of views that promote hatred against minority groups, and quite rightly so. You cannot say what you like in the UK.

I do not have to admit that being lesbian or gay isn't natural, you may think that, but I don't. It's natural to those who are and also occurs in the animal kingdom - so it *is* natural, even though some people don't like it. It isn't a new invention it's been around throughout history but now we don't kill people for being gay, or put them in prison like they did to Oscar Wilde.

Gwynne

i AM APPALLED TO READ THE COMMENTS ATTRIBUTED TO ME HALF WAY UP THIS PAGE WHICH IN NO WAY REPRESENT MY VIEWS ON HOMOSEXUALS.

Please read back and note that it is the setting of a precedent which worries me and I would never make remarks such as those quoted and inferred. the personal remarks made are just plain stupid.

Happy days

There are many differing views and opinions on here, that is what I find interesting. It would be boring if everyone thought the same things.
I would say all opinions on here are valid as long as they do not hurt other people.
Keep them coming in. .:>))

Rita, exactly so, money shouldn't come into it, but I was saying that many children are indulged and allowed to be spoiled, and the ones I was talking about weren't like that and that even some children of friends of mine who don't have lots of money are spoiled brats and not children I like to spend time with. I often see children whose parents are well off and buy the children everything they want and more and those children are rude, greedy and ungrateful, but the children I mentioned were none of those, they were a delight to watch and see interacting with each other and their family as well as their school friends altho they did have some difficulties with some people at the school I seem to remember. The attitudes of the children at the school who were not kind would have come from their parents attitudes and that is sad and disgraceful. If children are brought up to be understanding and accepting then there would not be so much prejudice against anyone's way of life, looks, handicaps or whatever.
I think if a child is loved for itself and is brought up with humility it will be a good adult regardless of whether it has one or two parents, two male parents or two female parents.
Would people think differently if this were two lesbians having a child by a sperm donor?

I brought my son up with an absent father who altho my son knows him, was neither use nor ornament to us and my brothers weren't much cop as uncles, my Dad was my son's main male role model but sadly he died when my son was 7. My son is a very popular well rounded young man who is looking forward to finding a girl he can spend the rest of his life with and hopefully have children in years to come. He learned to mix with all sorts of people and not judge and consequently is good socially and a fair person. I don't think he would have been any different with a father around or a second mother had I been a lesbian so there is no reason why having two fathers will be a problem for young Zac. He will have many doors open to him because of the money in the family and the fame but he will also have things he can't do easily because of the fame. It will all be addressed and adjusted as he goes through life and I am sure he will be fine, and learn to mix with all kinds of people, not just gay men, or will know how to face difficult situations and be strong enough to deal with them, all because he will be loved and supported.

That's what matters, really.

Lizx

Rita, I've already explained why some opinions deserve no respect. I was brought up to speak out against prejudice and ignorance, so I will wherever I see it.

Respect works both ways, where is the respect for those members who are gay?

This country does not have freedom of speech, there are laws forbidding the expression of certain views and the use of certain language. We can't legislate for what people think but enlightened governments make rules about what people can say.

Of course people can express views but cannot expect them to pass unchallenged.

Gwynne

Ok Ronald says un-natural,,he hasnt called any bad names in ref to these parents just the situation and should imagine that would be his on all matters in these circumstances....his entitlement.I defend thats his right.


Claire, I should imagine these "these old queens" will be loving.kind.protective, stable and having lived the lives they have,,fair but firm.

Probably good ones, & no worse than many less public profiled couples.

I wonder if they will really be hands on parents,? With all their wealth they are bound to have a string of nanny's.

I wonder what sort or parents a couple of old queens will make..

I don't respect or give any validity to opinions grounded in bigotry and ignorance.

If someone says the earth is flat then no one is going to say that it's a valid view.

Same applies here as far as I'm concerned. People can hold whatever opinions they want but none of us have to accept them as valid and we certainly don't have to respect them.

Gwynne

LOL Rita, that'll be Dwight or Furnish!!!
I expect the mother may be involved in a scant way. She'll have been paid enough.
I agree with Uggers, why didn't they adopt a child already in need of loving parents?
As for Harry's comments - those of a male unsure of his sexuality - reminds me of the men in pubs who, when a known homosexual came in - turned their A**es to the bar in the narrow minded view that anyone would fancy them!!! LOL

They are HOMOSEXUALS Harry - not paedophiles! They don't go after 'any man' any more than a heterosexual male goes after 'any female' - or child for that matter - unless they're a bit weird.

Well said Uggers !

Er...no it doesn't, Kay.

You may be able to accept bigoted comments as valid and you're entitled to but I don't recognise validity in any opinion just because it's expressed.

Ronald has put how he feels about it and it should be respected thats his opinion, his just differs from most.

It has to be accepted not all see eye to eye on all matters,his opinion is a valid as everyone elses.

Ronald are you the same 'Ronald' who threw some very offensive personal comments at a very respected lady who disagreed with your bigoted remarks a few months ago?

That's a hypothetical question by the way :).

I dont give a toss Ronald if anyone agrees with me or not. II also dont give a toss what you think about me, or what you think I agree with or not.

As for being sad, maybe you need to look in the mirror & judge yourself before you judge others in such a putrid way.

Goodnight

If we were all the same what a boring world it would be!!!
l have 3 members of my close family that are gay/lesbians...l can assure you they are all extremely good.caring, law abiding, decent human beings. One has never wanted children, another would dearly love to have children, but they both have to work, the other one has a child and they are brilliant parents, better than alot of hetrosexual parents!!!!
We can't choose our sexuality, we are born the way we are and its time people realised this. Its often pressure from "what should be" that causes so much heartache.
Good luck to Elton and David:o))

jude