General Chat

Er...no it doesn't, Kay.

You may be able to accept bigoted comments as valid and you're entitled to but I don't recognise validity in any opinion just because it's expressed.

Well said Uggers !

LOL Rita, that'll be Dwight or Furnish!!!
I expect the mother may be involved in a scant way. She'll have been paid enough.
I agree with Uggers, why didn't they adopt a child already in need of loving parents?
As for Harry's comments - those of a male unsure of his sexuality - reminds me of the men in pubs who, when a known homosexual came in - turned their A**es to the bar in the narrow minded view that anyone would fancy them!!! LOL

They are HOMOSEXUALS Harry - not paedophiles! They don't go after 'any man' any more than a heterosexual male goes after 'any female' - or child for that matter - unless they're a bit weird.

I don't respect or give any validity to opinions grounded in bigotry and ignorance.

If someone says the earth is flat then no one is going to say that it's a valid view.

Same applies here as far as I'm concerned. People can hold whatever opinions they want but none of us have to accept them as valid and we certainly don't have to respect them.

Gwynne

I wonder if they will really be hands on parents,? With all their wealth they are bound to have a string of nanny's.

I wonder what sort or parents a couple of old queens will make..

Probably good ones, & no worse than many less public profiled couples.

Ok Ronald says un-natural,,he hasnt called any bad names in ref to these parents just the situation and should imagine that would be his on all matters in these circumstances....his entitlement.I defend thats his right.


Claire, I should imagine these "these old queens" will be loving.kind.protective, stable and having lived the lives they have,,fair but firm.

Rita, I've already explained why some opinions deserve no respect. I was brought up to speak out against prejudice and ignorance, so I will wherever I see it.

Respect works both ways, where is the respect for those members who are gay?

This country does not have freedom of speech, there are laws forbidding the expression of certain views and the use of certain language. We can't legislate for what people think but enlightened governments make rules about what people can say.

Of course people can express views but cannot expect them to pass unchallenged.

Gwynne

Rita, exactly so, money shouldn't come into it, but I was saying that many children are indulged and allowed to be spoiled, and the ones I was talking about weren't like that and that even some children of friends of mine who don't have lots of money are spoiled brats and not children I like to spend time with. I often see children whose parents are well off and buy the children everything they want and more and those children are rude, greedy and ungrateful, but the children I mentioned were none of those, they were a delight to watch and see interacting with each other and their family as well as their school friends altho they did have some difficulties with some people at the school I seem to remember. The attitudes of the children at the school who were not kind would have come from their parents attitudes and that is sad and disgraceful. If children are brought up to be understanding and accepting then there would not be so much prejudice against anyone's way of life, looks, handicaps or whatever.
I think if a child is loved for itself and is brought up with humility it will be a good adult regardless of whether it has one or two parents, two male parents or two female parents.
Would people think differently if this were two lesbians having a child by a sperm donor?

I brought my son up with an absent father who altho my son knows him, was neither use nor ornament to us and my brothers weren't much cop as uncles, my Dad was my son's main male role model but sadly he died when my son was 7. My son is a very popular well rounded young man who is looking forward to finding a girl he can spend the rest of his life with and hopefully have children in years to come. He learned to mix with all sorts of people and not judge and consequently is good socially and a fair person. I don't think he would have been any different with a father around or a second mother had I been a lesbian so there is no reason why having two fathers will be a problem for young Zac. He will have many doors open to him because of the money in the family and the fame but he will also have things he can't do easily because of the fame. It will all be addressed and adjusted as he goes through life and I am sure he will be fine, and learn to mix with all kinds of people, not just gay men, or will know how to face difficult situations and be strong enough to deal with them, all because he will be loved and supported.

That's what matters, really.

Lizx

There are many differing views and opinions on here, that is what I find interesting. It would be boring if everyone thought the same things.
I would say all opinions on here are valid as long as they do not hurt other people.
Keep them coming in. .:>))

i AM APPALLED TO READ THE COMMENTS ATTRIBUTED TO ME HALF WAY UP THIS PAGE WHICH IN NO WAY REPRESENT MY VIEWS ON HOMOSEXUALS.

Please read back and note that it is the setting of a precedent which worries me and I would never make remarks such as those quoted and inferred. the personal remarks made are just plain stupid.

Happy days

I agree to a certain extent, Sue. But there are views on here that would hurt people, that's why I had my say.

Rita, you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. In this country you *cannot* say what you like, that was my point. There are laws to prevent the expressing of views that promote hatred against minority groups, and quite rightly so. You cannot say what you like in the UK.

I do not have to admit that being lesbian or gay isn't natural, you may think that, but I don't. It's natural to those who are and also occurs in the animal kingdom - so it *is* natural, even though some people don't like it. It isn't a new invention it's been around throughout history but now we don't kill people for being gay, or put them in prison like they did to Oscar Wilde.

Gwynne

It is enough to make me despair it really is! I managed last night NOT to send the reply I wrote in anger.. I won't rewrite it , Uggers and Gwynne have put it better and with more brevity :)

But i will say I can accept no validity in, or respect for, the bigoted opinions of someone simply because I accept
( and defend) they have the freedom to think such things... if that were the case that everyone's opinion is "valid" . then the opinions of tyrants and purveyours of hate and genocide would have the same 'validity' as that of Saints and prophets...I won't EVER accept that .

Sometimes an opinion is just plain WRONG.

If you believe that God created Adam and Eve (which I don't) then you probably have to accept that he also created homosexuality, I'd have thought. If God created everything then he also created the love that people of the same sex feel for each other.

And people shouting abuse at troops are arrested and convicted you can read about it here -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/11/luton-guilty-soldiers-baby-killers

Gwynne

It may not be natural to you, Rita, but it is to them.

People "get away" with things all the time. The EDL visited a local town and threatened and abused local muslims. The police let them "get away with it" as long as they moved on. Sadly that's what happens a lot of the time in all sorts of cases. Fortunately the muslims didn't rise to the bait so the EDL didn't get the confrontation they wanted and left looking a bit daft.

Gwynne

It always bothers me this Adam and Eve thing, the first humans, our ancestors who had sons.... it is the first of many stumbling blocks to me in interpreting the bible literally, but anyway...

Either God created us all, whatever our sexuality, or he created none of us surely? ... my mix of genes and hormones etc decrees I am heterosexual, a slightly different combination of those genes and I might have been homosexual ( bisexual or asexual I suppose).

Anyway to get back on track,

I bet David and Elton will be as scared as anyone who takes charge of a new baby,and Zac as its reported is Eltons son.......they have lots to learn,cope with and will be as any new parents--proud as punch.
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If someone has an opposing opinion to me I can still respect that and defend its thier right without adding a lable to them just because they dont agree with me or the masses.!
whos to say either party is right!

I have only seen 1 ref to the couple that really is class room fodder....and refered to as *a couple of old queens* that surely is more of a gripe than someone voicing they found acts of gays unnatural....that in its self isnt offensive or an offence.that is not my problem but theirs ,as long as I'm comfortable with my own thoughts then a weak defence shout of unnatural floats into the ether.

Sorry Rita but you have to blame God the creator of all on earth and in heaven.}

What we should all remember is that gay people don't choose the way they are, and cannot change it, it's not like their feelings can be altered by medication or anything. As for the difficulties it usually creates especially in childhood, when they are trying to understand their different needs, they wouldn't choose to go through the turmoil inside as they try to discover why they feel differently to other young people in their groups.

There but for our mix of genes go you or I !

Lizx

There are many Children bought up in this world by their "natural parents" who suffer at the hands of them through neglect and worse.
Cases of which we need no reminders


Older Parents do not generally mean they will be dead by the time the child reaches 20.
My Dad was in his 40s when I was born and lived a full and productive life until he died this year age 89. He was brilliant with his Grandchildren age 18, 15 12 and 11 years and always said they kept him young at heart.

I know of several Children who have lost a young parent in their 20s and 30s. through ilness or accident.

Good luck to Elton and David and the new baby and may they have a happy life.

It doesnt matter if a parent is young or old, rich or poor, gay or straight, married or unmarried.

As long as the Child is loved and cared for I feel that is the most important thing.

Teresa

The total number of gay partnerships formed since the Civil Partnership Act came into force in December 2005 up to the end of 2009 is 40,237, In all it is less than 4% of all marriages and falling rapidly year by year.

So based on fact, there is clearly little demand for gay marriages in this country.

The figures are around 10% of the numbers that were presented to Parliament and which persuaded MP's to vote for the act on the basis that there was a general demand - which clearly has been proved entirely false.

As far as surrogacy is concerned, the same rules apply to all. Age surely is the main factor?