General Chat

Clegg has now - whimpily - said that he was wrong to promise free further education!!!

...Like we can't all say we're sorry after the event!!!

Students - without rent-a-mob- have every right to be angry. They've been seriously let down. Here's an article from that well-known organ of the left - the Telegraph - from April this year

" Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg pledged to oppose any attempt to remove the cap on tuition fees, warning of a "disaster" if student debt levels were allowed to rise further.

The Lib Dems enjoyed electoral success in many constituencies with a large student population in 2005, with young voters attracted by the party's opposition to tuition fees and their stance against the Iraq War"

Well, Mr Clegg - be careful what you predict.

Sue x

At least they showed what they thought.
As William initially said - the Lib Dems promised no tuition fees!!!

..'Rent a mob' are sure to turn up - as I found in the Twyford Down protests, just across the road from me.....


maggie (who's now woken up by incessant the noise from the M3!)

Absolutely. Janey is right. You can, indeed, bet your bottom dollar that the "radical workers and students" are neither.

I have every sympathy with the student contingent who were protesting. Unlike us who are a bit older in the tooth, they haven't got quite so cynical as to expect politicians to actually blatantly lie. I remember being idealistic myself - and I was probably a much better person then than I am now.

There's little point in Cameron asking for an enquiry into how the police handled the situation. I can tell you now - without the benefit of any crystal ball - that they'll have even more bother handling a similar situation in the next couple of years; when their numbers have been severely cut by .... guess who? They were put in an impossible position, and their position will only get worse as their numbers get fewer and their morale gets lower.

Not to worry, the Big Society will sort it all out. If, that is, you've got a secret door behind your wardrobe.

Sue x

http://www.thewolf.co.uk/news?xid=15800468

Web Call For Violence Ahead Of Student Demo
Sky News has found evidence of internet discussions about potential violence at the student protests at least a week before Wednesday's riot in London.

Student anarchist groups had been using known protester forums and Facebook to call for "direct action", "civil disobedience" and "occupations" since at least October 26.

Two Facebook groups with a combined membership of around 450 users called for black anarchist flags to be brought to the demonstations.

The Radical Workers' and Students' Bloc Facebook page called on "all anarchists and militant workers and students to join us in forming a 'Radical Workers' and Students' Bloc' on the demonstration, arguing for all those in education to fight the cuts based on the principles of solidarity, direct action, and control of our own struggle.

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You can bet your bottom dollar that the "radical workers and students" are neither workers nor students.

I see quite a number of people referring to the "students" engaging in the property damage.

Does anyone actually have evidence that the people in question were students?

There are in fact contingents of people who prey on demonstrations like this specifically to cause property damage and nothing else. They call themselves anarchists; the Black Bloc is a more or less generic title for them. They descend from hundreds of miles away every time they see an opportunity to hijack a genuine event.

At the G20 summit in Toronto this year, they destroyed blocks of storefronts along the main shopping street. NO ONE who was involved in organizing the genuine protests and demonstrations had anyting to do with those people -- and those people had NOTHING to do with organizing the genuine protests and demonstrations.

They are not involved in the issues the demonstrations are about, or any other kind of public participation in public issues. Their sole activity is this: causing as much damage as possible whenever other groups are demonstrating their genuine beliefs about public policies.

If there's any evidence that this was NOT who the people were who were causing all the damage this time out, I'd like to see it.

These people are professional disruptors. Whatever they claim their beliefs are or their purpose is, they are not ever actually associated with the groups whose activities they disrupt.


http://www.politics.co.uk/comment/education/comment-on-the-front-line-with-student-protestors-$21385525.htm

"The most active participants were, as ever, the black bloc, that militant tribe of anarchists whose faces are covered in black scarves. You can tell it's them by the determined walk and the confidence as well as the get-up. They pull everyone back before smashing windows. Whatever you think, they're actually relatively careful with the people around them. But yep, they smash stuff. That's what they do."


And how do the real protestors react? --

"Soon enough the first protestors emerged on the roof. They unfolded a banner and waved and set off fire extinguishers. Someone threw one down, narrowly missing the police on the ground. The crowd on the ground started booing and chanting: 'Stop throwing s**t'. "


But that's it. There's no more talk about the issues a demonstration was actually about; the news is all about the professional yobs. Very effective.

And yes, the police are left in a no-win situation by these activities. More success for the yobs.

I think I read that the Chief of the Met police himself said he was embarrassed at how they failed.

I like the way David Cameron is going to have an enquiry into how the Police handled the riot,I feel the Police cant do anything right they are either too heavy handed or there is not enough of them.
And he's going to cut them back even further.

Re water cannons, I i,magine it would have been impossible to use them effectively in the relatively small area of the trouble, a water cannon would have hindered the police as much as the students.

I can't understand why the police didn't bring out the WATER CANNONS with the weather like it was, I bet they would have soon run away, like cowards always do. !!

Regardless of what the protest was about, these students should not be resorting to anarchy and vandalism in the name of their cause. I know it is said that far left groups were mainly responsible for the vandalism but a 23 year old female student from cambridge admitted that some of the students from her Cambridge college were on the roof. She also said that she accepted vandalism against property and buildings as not being a problem and wholly acceptable. I think if these vandals are identified (somebody could have been killed by that extinguisher) they should be 'sent down' from college. There are many would be students who are unable to get a place at Cambridge.

I suppose if you repeat a lie often enough it gets to be believed.As I've stated previously the vast amount that was spent by the last government was in addressing the failures of the Banks.If any bank had been allowed to go under you would have seen far worse scenes than yesterday at every branch of those that remained as people scrambled to withdraw their money.

The present economic crisis was caused by Osborne's friends the spivs and specuulators.

As for any political crisis it is caused by what I call Focus Groupism.There should be a return to mass participation by ordinary folk in Political Parties.There should also be a return to ideas and policies coming from the grassroots of these parties.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

Apparently the Students? on the roof came from Cambridge University,Others came down from Scotland ( Don,t think they pay any fees) the pictures show windows being smashed etc,and the Fire Extiguisher was thrown down ( not dropped ) those whose pictures show them comitting vandalism should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.and the Organisers of the Demo.should be made to pay the cost of repairs,( Students union ) I know they are having problems with costs, However If Brown/Blair and co. had,nt spent all OUR money and put the Country into Hock for years to come,this may not have happened.But like all Polititians,Nothing is like what they say in their Election Manifestoes.But if that lot are the future,God help us.**M**.

the students should be ashamed of them selves

I can understand that the students feel totally let down by the government, and their futures' threatened.
These people are our future.
It doesnt excuse violence or destruction though, and they should be made to take the consequences of their actions.
Sue

In reply to the comment about studying lectures do not take place Mon - Fri 9am - 4.30pm. I have about 15 hours of lectures pw, yes I have work to do outside of those lectures but when I do it is up to me so long as it gets done.

While not condoning the violence by the small minority of students bad behaviour is not a new thing. Foggy, himself, said in one of his posts that he did things he is now ashamed of. The same will probably be said by these students when they get older.

Btw please don't insult animals, I can't see animals going round beating people up/smashing things up.

I suppose its a case then of;Don't blame us were only the government!

Regards
William Russell Jones.

I agree, violence doesn't resolve peoples grievances. But dont forget these young people, when they finish their education. Are the next generation of consumers, earning & putting their money into the economy. But unlike our generation, they'll be burdened with a huge debt from the very start employment. So a proportion of that income that would otherwise contribute to the national GDP, is being used to pay off that debt......In other words a tax.

As for the LibDems, yep they did promise to abolish student fees. But as the old saying goes.............Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I am the very last person who would wish to see any violent protest but I'm afraid todays events are but a foretaste of whats in store for us.

There are an awful lot of angry people out there embittered by this shambolic governments policies.They are led by a silver spoon axis of Cameron/Clegg/Osbourne,people who have absolutely no experience of ordinary life.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

I'm sure that the NUS president is an ambitious guy, who has his CV at the forefront of his mind. Of course he wanted it to go off peacefully.