General Chat

Rose, that's what I like to believe in - a greater being that created and let things run their course- I think it's a nice idea:)

Hm, given a choice between tea and religion ... I might take religion. ;)

oops. Still going strong I see. Better get that kettle back on - Janey must be parched. :))

Sorry Janey, but hopefully you may pick it up at sometime ( Channel 4 is ITV not BBC )

RR, you're so mean. I can't watch BBC stuff (or whatever channel 4 might be). I can hope we get it on a local network here soon, though.


RB, you may give me incentive. Are you finding the book readable and comprehensible?? I read those first 10 pages of the first one four times ...


Patricia: "Was there a Creator? probably not, we just 'ARE'.."

And so sez all of me. ;)

I did learn "love one another" in Sunday School (as many people in many religions have also been taught), but I think many of us have also figured it out on our own.


Janet -- you mean you haven't traced your ancestors back to the Big Bang yet??

sounds a bit like family history.........J

yes the BOOK, 'The Grand Design' I’m about half way through it now, worth a read, it gets you thinking in ways you never thought of.
it goes back through history and tells/shows us how thing in the past which we thought was true turn out to be not quite what we thought and even what he is telling us today, may or will change in the future.

For thos who might want to watch

Stephen Hawking's Universe(Scientific Documentary,1997)
Channel 4
Saturday, September 18th, 2010
8:00pm to 9:00pm

WOW... A good old debate about the age old question eh?
So glad everyone is talking and not falling out over this..
because to argue about it would be no point as it's a question that is probably unanswerable..
The one thing I got from religion is 'to love one another' I agree with that..

Was there a Creator? probably not, we just 'ARE'..

Katherine, this thread was specifically about Stephen Hawking's new book (which of course I haven't read; I made it through 10 pages of his first book).

If you seriously think that kindergarten-level "argument" like what you posted is an appropriate response to the likes of Stephen Hawking (or even, clearly, the likes of me) ...

( in terms of natural events, natural selection, evolution).
all of them, planet earth was it made by a creator?

lol Cynthia, I'll pop in my own sugar please :) trying to cut down, but I don't like sweeteners as an alternative ,

Just putting the kettle back on Rose. One sweetener or two? :)) Cx

RB re the Monty Python song...yes isn't it great? without "ugly" things ( not that I agree all those mentioned are ) beauty would be less apparent...

stand, for eg, Angelina Jolie next to me and you double her beauty quotient in an instant ;)

The black spot on the rose leaves makes the perfect rose above even more lovely.

"Question to all them believe in a creator, where do you draw the line between creations and nature i.e. are the clouds a creation are all life forms a creation, at what stage to you say that’s caused by nature."

Is that asking do I believe in an interventionist God? or one who started the creation and then 'let it run' ( in terms of natural events, natural selection, evolution).


answers after more coffee ;)

cyntha, your spot on with that, so different when your face to face with someone.

Golly, now I know why I don't do cyber faith chats! I'm cross eyed already and it's only 7.55am!


How much better to be able to sit down together, probably with a table between us to give each other the space which may be needed. We would then be able to see each other's eyes and expressions; hear each other's stories and experiences and give us the opportunity to share our thoughts, hopes and fears in the safety of real friendship. Steaming coffee would be served and it would be quite understood if the door were to be slammed on the way out because that's the way real friendships go occasionally :)) Cx

Monty Pythons songs which i love.
All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
Al things rude and nasty,
The Lord God mad the lot.

Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made thier brutishvenom,
He made their horrid wings.

All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The lord God made them all.

Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid,
Who made the spikey urchin?
Who made the shrks? He did.

All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Purid foul and gangernous,
The Lord God made them all.

AMEN.

Question to all them believe in a creator, where do you draw the line between creations and nature i.e. are the clouds a creation are all life forms a creation, at what stage to you say that’s caused by nature.

Janey, Those arguments are there in answer to the theories put out there as to why it can be proved there is no God. They were specifically answering the questions about creation by a higher intelligent designer or, something just appearing out of nothing and then slowly evolving over zillions of years from a microbe that randomly appeared out of nothing.
I stand by what I posted because I believe that everything that exists is not by chance but, I don't believe that I am able to convince people intellectually as the real knowledge of God speaks to the spirit of a person , I believe that only God can do this as it is their innermost being and no person can touch that part with mere words. It takes God himself to reach down and reveal himself to those who will receive him.
I come across clergymen like the one in your youth at times and it baffles me as to why they profess a belief in a God who doesn't resemble the God of the bible. It's very sad but unfortunately they have been around for a long time. Jesus himself had dealings with them often enough but he handled it alot better than I ever could.
The parables have a very Jewish context to them and can't be treated on face value. And no, it doesn't mean that God rewards greedy capitalists. :) As you may know, Jesus is saying this is like the kingdom of God , the talents represent his word and the servants are the rabbis, ministers, clergymen etc. He was comparing those who were just religious and had no real love for him and his word to those who had the whole counsel of God and were happy and went out investing it and sharing it with the people. The rewards would be given on a set day as to how they had handled his word. had they given hope to people or not bothered and used it as a tool against them.
Love does call for sacrifice and that is why Jesus allowed himself to be crucified for our sake. So that we could have knowledge of God, of his nature and a restored relationship' with him and the reward is eternal life and not separation. (might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb) :). No! I am not sermonizing, just answering your post so please don't bite my head off. It's the only one I've got and my neck's still sore from the wringing you gave it earlier :)))

Katherine xx

Katherine, you offered up what the author, and you, called "arguments" to support belief in the existence of a god.

In the spirit of the thing we call discusison -- or, when "arguments" are expressly offered, debate -- I offered my rebuttal of them.

I addressed what you said. You don't seem to be able to do the same thing. You're the one who chose to say, well, copy, what you posted.

"I am not out to convince anyone of my beliefs as I believe only God can do this."

??

Then what are all these "arguments" in aid of??

If you don't subscribe to them, and just posted them for the curious, fine.


suzian -- that whither etc. was who, Ruth?

Widowed, left the godless land of Moab, her own society, to go back to mother-in-law's home town. Ended up marrying a rich guy related to father-in-law -- because the widowed mother-in-law wanted to sell the land they lived on, her deceased husband's land, and *she went with the land* -- but they fudged it so it could be the deceased owner's son's widow who went with the land and nobody had to marry the old woman. The woman went with the land -- to preserve the ownership of the land, keep it in the (man's) family. Patriarchy! And fairy tale, since the poor but beautiful young widow got the rich husband.

Whether Ruth spoke those words to Naomi out of "love", I dunno. Love, hope for a better life ... ? I wonder where her love for her own parents might have been. Or maybe she had been orphaned.

"Love" undoubtedly calls for sacrifice. It also produces rewards.


It's things like these that started me out the church door. ;)

Confirmation classes, age 13 -- the minister said it was okay if I didn't believe in hell, because he had a fellow clergyman who didn't. But the one I could not get over was the parable of the talents. A god who rewards cheating capitalists and casts out those who refuse to make more profits for the villains?? Not in my universe!

Ultimately it was just age and reason that did it. By the time I was 15, all the comforts (and even intellectually interesting bits) of religion just couldn't overcome the unbelievability of it. ;)