General Chat

Hi Marion, he'd push anyone over the edge I recon lol


your right there Gwynne!!

The failings were not by the police who were left to pick up the pieces by the real culprits - The politicians, the judiciary and the prison social workers. They are the ones who allowed this thug to be sentenced to only 18 weeks in jail and then let him out after only 9 weeks.

THE HOME SECRETARY, THE LEGAL PROFESSION AND SOCIAL WORKERS WHO RELEASED HIM EARLY ARE AS GUILTY AS MOAT FOR THESE SHOOTINGS AND SHOULD HANG THEIR HEADS IN SHAME.

The police did a marvellous job in Rothbury and accomplished what they really set out to do - made sure no more innocents were harmed. Credit where credit is due.

Er, I understand the Probation Officers and Prison social workers told the police what he'd said he would do. That's their job. It's the job of the police to act on it.

Hardly the Home Secretary's fault it wasn't acted upon.

And as for the people you mention being as much to blame as Moat, that's plain stupid.

Gwynne

Burton,

Social Wokers have no control when a release date is given to anyone in prison nor do PO,,the prison acted with the law,what they state was his release date,,,if he was released on his due date with no extra time added on then thats what it was,,,,the police were informed I understand,,,, their job would have been to act on it.

A large number of people being released will make threats. It's simply not possible to monitor them all. It's the nature of the beast. Almost all of them are made out of sheer bravado and in line with the culture they live within.

Then maybe that should change, Eldrick, if it's against the law to make threats I should have thought the police were obliged to act when told of such threats. If they are not, then I hope that changes.

I hope the police did at least warn the woman of the threats and that she was informed that he'd been released.

No one is to blame except Moat himself, but the circumstances need to be examined thoroughly, to prevent further similar tragedies.

Gwynne

Sadly, the armchair tacticians who think they know best have in reality, aboslutely zero knowledge of how things work in real life. Police standing round....and the point is exacly what? That they should have been sitting?

Whether you believe or not, whether you accept it or not - that is matterless - but it was actually a text book operation of locate, identify and contain. How else would the armchair critics have done it? I've seen lots of comments on various websites and listened to the talking heads on the TV and the nonsense they talk is really ridiculous. It was a job well done and the critics need to criticse from the standpoint of knowledge rather than ignorance. Knowledge of the full facts is something that was not and probably will not be available for many reasons.

The outcome was not ideal, but it was predictable. I personally take no pleasure in the way it ended, but so be it. The safety of the public was paramount and that's the way it turned out. And no, we are not getting like little America. Nowhere near it and there is no comparison, but its another propagated bit of urban mythology that people prefer to believe rather than the reality of things. There's been many occasions over the years when similar manhunts have happened but they fade from memory. Who remembers the Harry Roberts search? Barry Prudham? I bet you have to google those names. If you want to live in a free society, there are inherent risks with unstable people and that will always be the case. The myth that guns are easy to get hold of doesn't actually hold water when the premise is examined. They aren't, unless you are in the circle of criminality that allows it, and nothing will ever change that.

Oh I dont belive you have to be a criminal or be in crim gangland to sell on guns,,,,,,,,look at the 2 Durham long serving officers who just recently got suspended sentances for sell on gun that had been handed in,,,,,,,,that dont send out good messages.I'm sure they werent gangland members of any criminal ring, they were part of force whos aim is to keep crim off the streets,good job one gun from their greed didnt cause this latest wave of destruction!these man let the good serving officers of our force down badly.

But we arent getting like US thanks goodness ,last night on first sight RM would have seen shot on sight without question,,,and officers *just standing about* would have laid their own life on the line for a member of the public in Rothbury had need be.

No, perhaps not, but the point is that guns aren't as easy to get hold of as mythology has it. It's a simple fact that someone wanting a gun for a criminal purpose will get it from within the criminal community. Those two corrupt idiots from Durham were actually selling them to licensed persons, so the firearms actually came into the registration system, which is how they were found out. They weren't selling them to criminals, fortunately. How they thought they would get away with it is beyond me.

But,,and there is always a big BUT,,,,they could have found their way into the wrong hands should the price be right,! they wasnt idiots they are a disgrace to the force who placed their upmost trust in them,,,,,


but never the less its wrong to assume that standing about officers were just doing that,idling thier time away *standing about*,,,they had orders given to them and they carried them out,like anyon who has a higher rank above them...,they give orders,you follow .

It will I'm sure take the comunity long days to get back on track,and hope no one is affected long term by it,

Well, it's no more likely that that would have happened than with any other legally held firearm. Once you have a registered firearm, you have to account for it's whereabouts at all times, so selling it on is an exceptionally rare occurence and it would be very difficult to cover your tracks if you did so. I personally was extremely disappointed that they never got a long custodial sentence. They deserved it.

most gun crimes here are commited by hand guns,,,,,,usually brought in to the country by order for big bucks,,for the crimnals use..
serving soldiers have been known bring them in,!!!

Barbra

http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/page/2/

scroll down and see the incredible pictures of guns and police and children!

Hoplophobes will seize on any out of context thing they can to try to bolster their hatred of the police, firearms or both. It's boring.

But whatever, it's concluded now and the inquiry will be interesting, that's for sure.

and well good of them,teaching young children the dangers of guns ,,,,, of course they were loaded and had the firing action in place wasntt they and took place outside of a controled enviroment without parental consent.......!!!!!!!!....same takes place at displays of crossbow events,or rifle eventsunder controlled conditions with experts on hand,,,,

I see that he was tasered. Now before there is a hue and cry, let's examine the scenario. An armed man surrounded by armed officers, in darkness and pouring rain, illuminated by spotlights. No cameras, for obvious reasons. I suspect that the police may have videod it themselves, though.

So, suppose he has heightened the stakes by either pointing the shotgun at himself again, or at the police. The former is most likely. The option is to -A) shoot him. Which would not be lawful as he posed no risk to anyone else if was doing that.B) Use CS irritant on him. Not a good choice - too far away and in the wind, not effective. It blows back at the person using it, which makes it an even worse idea. C) Taser him. A less than lethal option which may or may not have been effective, only one way to find out. So they did. And he cried in pain, which is pretty much the whole idea of a taser, to cause excruciating pain but not injury. Then he shot himself, which tends to suggest that the taser was ineffective, probably because of the rain causing the current to dissapate. They immediately jumped on him to restrain him should he be alive, but 'twas not the case. Even in the dark, it's fairly simple to tell if a person is dead or not having been shot in the head with a shotgun. Death can only be pronounced by a doctor, which is what happened.

Is there a problem with this sequence of events? I can't see one, but perhaps I'm missing something.

heres what I put on another thread :o) - been offline for a couple of days & I saw that thread first & added to it

.............................

The police fired a taser but nothing has been officially disclosed if it was fired before or after Moat shot himself.

BTW quote from BBC news online

"Paramedics were quickly on the scene and Moat was taken by ambulance to Newcastle General Hospital - accompanied by two police cars - but died shortly after arriving."

IMHO I think he would have shot himself anyhow - he played cat & mouse for long enough making threats towards the police & general public

I'm just glad he never took anyone else with him last night.

I was also watching sky news on and off since last night, & they will take a seed & try to make it grow into the next part of the story by pushing for answers. (which I believe they didn't get from the people who read the last statement out on TV).

The only people who genuinely know what went on, in those conditions where the life of everyone in that vicinity was at risk, are those who where there.

Those final moments will be dissected during the enquiry where the true facts are known. It doesn't matter that X expert or Y expert give their two pennyworth - they wasn't there at the scene so dont know what triggered those last events...so there guess is no better than the general publics guesses all said and done.

'Guess' being the appropriate operative word, that's for sure.

They are desperate for new angles and some of the reporting has been creative, to say the least.

I am just glad it is all over, I wish the tasering had been successfull, assuming it was meant to disarm... I would have liked to see him take the consequences of his actions, but that has been avoided by him. I would now like to see those who helped him get the justice they deserve, too.

Well done to the police, who have managed a difficult job, in difficult terrain, and who really helped the people of Rothbury to go about their daily business as safely and as normally as possible under the circumstances.

Love

Daff xxxx