General Chat

No Janey NOT that bit... have you the rest please ...my quote of the word "contempt" is accurate.

Yes obviously, I was aware that you had Vietnam in mind BUT you didn't specify

Your recollection is very far from accurate, Rose.

This is what I said.



It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.

And here's where the author of this tripe can take it and stick it in the place without sunlight, with my compliments.

I was a campus organizer. And what were the soldiers doing when I was organizing against the war they were fighting?

KILLING CHILDREN, that's what they were doing. LAYING WASTE TO A COUNTRY. PROPPING UP A FOREIGN DICTATORSHIP. That's what they were doing.



It might have been obvious that I was talking about the war against Vietnam.

Oops didn't see there was more than one page. Will continue Reading

I did add this Janey

List of Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan
Since 2002, 130 soldiers ( ref' 2 months ago)

I said that I hoped they would not be thought of with
" contempt" in their homeland or elswhere.

Your comment as far as I recall accurately was that you held US soldiers "in contempt".

Ann

I read most of it..so did Janey say she was insulting anyone as a few have said that she had

Maybe some of those others woud like to tell me what I missed.

(We do all remember there's a time difference, right? It's 11 a.m. where I am. I apologize for not rising at 3 a.m. to amuse you all.)

The miiitary fights to defend the interests of the country for which it fights. Whatever they are.

I did not agree with Janey on this occasion and said so but saw no valid reason why her thread was deleted.

Surely most of the people on her thread (maybe with the exception of Janey) were arguing that our troops in times past have fought for the right to debate even on issues she raised on her thread.

Janey always lets people voice their opinions on her thread although she will challenge them in the same way she lets others challenge her.

She did not make personal remarks about any specific individual on her thread although others were very personal about her.

Oh, the part I forgot.

My maternal grandfather was too young for WWI and too old for WWII. My father was too young for WWII. But my paternal grandfather was in the British military before, during ... and after WWI.

He was in either the Black & Tans or the Royal Ulster Constabulary; the story isn't clear. What we do know is my grandmother talking about how, when they were living in Belfast (briefly, before she and their baby daughter were sent home to England), he would dress in black and go out at night and tell her not to ask where he had been. We know what he was doing. We know what British troops did in Ulster c1920.

Do I remember what my grandfather did with pride, do I honour the memory of his military service? Not on your life I don't. If I felt that my ancestors' deeds reflected on me, I would live in shame.

He was a soldier. I remember him, but I thank him for nothing.


I was born on a Dublin street where the Royal drums do beat
And the loving English feet they tramped all over us,
And each and every night when me father'd come home tight
He'd invite the neighbors outside with this chorus:

Oh, come out you black and tans,
Come out and fight me like a man
Show your wives how you won medals down in Flanders
Tell them how the IRA made you run like hell away,
From the green and lovely lanes in Killashandra.

Come let me hear you tell
How you slammed the great Pernell,
When you fought them well and truly persecuted,
Where are the smears and jeers
That you bravely let us hear
When our heroes of sixteen were executed.

Come tell us how you slew
Those brave Arabs two by two
Like the Zulus they had spears and bows and arrows,
How you bravely slew each one
With your sixteen pounder gun
And you frightened them poor natives to their marrow.

The day is coming fast
And the time is here at last,
When each yeoman will be cast aside before us,
And if there be a need
Sure my kids wil sing, "Godspeed!"
With a verse or two of Steven Beehan's chorus.

Ah, you obviously did not read all the comments, I only saw up to 10am and don't know what time it was zapped as I went out then until 1pm. There were quite a few upset people on there.

I can't quote you Janey it's gone lol, but if you have the original I will re read your comments on rape. I don't know if you saw the replies prior to deletion?

I assume you didn't delete it yourself then Janey. Personally I didn't think it should be deleted any more than any other debate. we should all be able to agree to disagree. Unfortunately though your original posting did upset a few people because you didn't put on there what you have put on here. I don't know if I have put that correctly but what you have put on here is not offensive and somehow the original post was. and the poem was actually I believe doing the rounds as an e mail, people like to express their feelings in poems, nothing wrong in that.

Ann

I forgot to say how disappointed I was that I slept through all the fun. Dang.

Rose, quote me.

I referred to what PARTICULAR SOLDIERS have done and do. Rape women. Kill children. And we know all the rest.

I made NO SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS and I will not accept your mischaracterizing what I say.

ah Janey, you came back as I pressed send

Janey was 'guilty' of a 'crime' she particularly abhors in others... a 'sweeping generalisation' on a specific group of people which was neither accurate nor well considered. That was insulting to them, and to many on here .

Being 'provocative' in the interests of a good debate is one thing, offending people gratuitously without careful consideration of ALL the facts is another I think.

Janey did not come back , to my knowledge, the thread was reported by a member who said on the thread itself that
that was their intent.

I put the thread up because I find fascism and militarism disgusting. I thought that was rather obvious.

I remember the people who suffered and died in wars very well, thank you. I am well aware that there are things worth fighting for and I'm glad that people do it.

My maternal grandfather was too young to fight in WWI, thank god. His oldest brother was killed, gassed in the dying days of that abominable blot on human history. His youngest brother, just a little older than he, lied about his age to sign up, and survived.

My grandfather went on to be a union activist in the depression, and fought for the 5-day week and other labour rights that I and everyone else in my country has benefited from for generations now. I thank him. I don't thank his big brother for fighting in WWI; I pity him and mourn him.

I am grateful to everyone involved in the effort to defeat the fascists in WWII. Soldiers, politicians, factory workers, farmers, parents, resistance fighters, all of them. I honour those who fought against fascism in Spain before that war, although my country, like most, has not seen fit to honour them publicly, and in fact sat back at the time while fascism rose.

I think the act of remembrance is polluted when it is exploited to dishonour everyone else who contributes to what is good about our societies -- poets, clergy, politicians, campus activists, and yes, lawyers. And that is all that the piece of tripe in question did.

It DISHONOURED every other member of our society who works for the common good. Without all of THEM - US - the soldiers would be serving a very different cause.

And of course I am so pleased to see that those who take such views are SO CONCERNED ABOUT THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH THEIR BELOVED SOLDIERS ARE ALLEGEDLY FIGHTING FOR THAT THEY TRY TO HAVE ANY VIEWS THEY DON'T WANT AIRED ELIMINATED FROM THE PUBLIC MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS.

Congratulations. Well done. Thank you.

You are putting words in my mouth because you insinuate that I told you not to post on gen and I didn't if you re-read my post I said that you have said you don't post on gen.

I don't think it was interesting, i think it was highly offensive to our military and so did most people who posted on it. For the record I did not report it as I wanted to see how Janey would respond to the posts on there, but I then went out and didn't get back until about 1pm by which time it was gone, so if Janey did come back I didn't see it.

I did not say you could not post on this board Sylvia, you are very welcome but I have seen on chat where you have said that you do not post on gen because it is all A-Zs. Don't put words in my mouth.

OK I didn't put this up for a slanging match - Sylvia you say you don't post on gen, so why are you. I am deleting this when i have checked the boards. I will leave it for Sylvia an Julie to read. Janey more or less did put why she put her tread up if you read it Julie.

Janey is the only one that can tell you why she put her thread up......so why don't you wait till she comes back on rather than assume she put it on the insult anyone

It was a contemptuous thread, and the only reason she could put it up, was because so many men and women have given their lives for freedom.
She should be thanking them all not just insulting them, their families and their memories.
I wonder how many of her relations have served their country.