General Chat

Oh Janey:-)) or Katherine/Catherine or whatever!

Feeling lonely on this thread:-)) dont worry Im sure Eldrick will be along in a minute to keep you company.

Bue Bye have a niceday.
*blows kiss*

I would come along regardless. The pleasure in 'talking' to someone who has the ability to string more than two words together and hold a conversation that doesn't consist of re-hashed watery eyed dogma, who can figure something out by themselves and who isn't dependant on the Daily Sport for their twisted arguments, who doesn't bear the irrational burden of fanatical over sentimentality for animals and who is able to articulate a discussion to a far higher degree than someone who merely posts abuse when someone has an alternative viewpoint......


Deep breath....

Yes, I know who's company I prefer! :-)

Daily Sport,whats that? you are obviously familiar with it enlighten me please.

I dont read news papers,I find them far to Bigoted,I prefer to get my Information Direct.
When have you seen a seal hunt Eldrick?? or are you just going by what the Bigoted papers are saying who are pro hunt.
Educate yourself Dear!!

Daily sport? I thought that was all boobsnbum's.

Yep, I've seen seal hunts. Many times.

I've also seen totally legal seal hunts in the UK. Bet you didn't know that happened, did you. Education required, I suspect.

Yes, I prefer to learn from direct experience rather than regurgitate the same tired old propaganda from the loony cash grabbing animal rights groups. Try googling the activists in the Canadian anti seal hunting lobby and see the in-fighting and money grabbing, the self enrichment and deception of the leading lights, all blindly funded by donations from well meaning and sentimental people, mostly from outside Canada.

So, I don't need educating, my little propagandist. I am not blind to the facts nor the big picture :-)

Eldrick,

you are full of it arent you:-))

Your probably as weak as the tea I have in my hand off the computer,you see Im not;-)))
well Im off now I have a busy day ahead planning more propaganda;-)))

*kisses hugs and buckets of it*

Janey
Thankyou for a well informed thread.
Coming from a family of Fellmongers/Skinners on one side and a great uncle who was the manager of the local abbatoir for many a year. Also my Uncle and two cousins worked there.
I understand what has to be done to earn a living and feed and clothe nations, has to be done.
They can hardly build office blocks and become "financial institutions" or open supermarket superstores in such Icebound lands can they? They utilise what is to hand.
It is not an easy life but it is their way of life I for one don't know what the answer is.
Anywhere,Any place, any scene that involves blood looks horrific.
We all know pictures can be deceiving too.

Yeterdays news told us about a school that has a little farm.The children learn about the animals then the pigs were killed made into sausages bacon etc. The chickens were used for the eggs then for the pot. That is teaching them what happens and how we get our food and how we survive.
Some parents are now up in arms it seems.?

We have become too "soft".

Tricia x

lol

I wont lower myself to your level by throwing insults when you haven't got a case to put. I would rather retain the high moral and intelectual ground than descend to your level of post office pension queue debate - sorry, wrong word. You can't debate because you don't have sufficient knowledge to do it, hence your resorting to crude insults and jibes.

Pretty much par for the course for the loony left animal rights activists. All talk and no knowledge.

Hi Eldrick
I take it that comment is not aimed at me and it is for a previous poster ? :)))
Tricia xx

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/5278989/Seal-products-banned-in-Europe.html

I found this article from the Daily Telegraph rather an interesting read in as much as the traditional native folk should still be able to hunt the seals ( well that's my understanding ) .
I thought it strange that the article began with the mention of the old " spiked clubs " ( if that is supposed to be a thing of the past ? )

Eldrick I was aware that a cull of seals does and can happen in Gt Britain ( given the population of Grey seals have suffered great losses from the distemper virus over the last few years I'm not certain that it has occurred lately ).

Janey..........the post card I mentioned before ( smug Canadian minister ? buisness man ? in ware house of pelts )......well I do believe it as it was sent to me years ago and I saw it with mine own eyes.

Amanda

LWD, I think you can take that as read. ;)

Oh, for a threaded discussion board! People wonder why I'm careful to quote whom/what I'm responding to ...

Thank you for your input. Voices of reason always welcome!

Amanda, you said the postcard came from the government. You're retracting that?

"spiked club". Please read the description of the tool that I have given more than once.

One side of it has what is being called a "spike" -- a narrow protuberance used to crush the skull. Spike would not actually be the best term for what that part is.

It is exactly the same in design, intent and use as the "stun bolt gun" used in cattle slaughterhouses. And I assume, in fact, that it is more reliable and effective than a firearm - else why would they not use guns in slaughterhouses? (It would also seem quite unwise to have people milling about on ice floes firing off guns.) Why assume that people who have been doing this for centuries haven't figured out the best way of doing it?

The other side of the tool, which is a two-in-one combination for efficiency, is the hook used for moving carcasses - actually a long narrow pointed "spike". I can't imagine why anyone would kill an animal with what is effectively a giant curved nail. I think the design problem there would have been figured out sometime back in the stone age.

The part of the tool used for killing more resembles a hammer head. I offer this site because of the particularly clear picture it has of a hakapik (oh for boards that allow images, or even clickable links ...); it also expresses a POV, and I am not linking to it because I adopt it, although I find it relatively reasonable:

http://necrofiles.blogspot.com/2008/04/moral-panic-surrounding-seal-clubbing.html

The long curved pointed "spike" is *not* the tool used for killing seals, despite what the anti-seal hunt gang may have tried for decades to make people believe.

It's unfortunate that the word itself conjures up images in the English mind that have nothing to do with the actual meaning of the word -- "hack" "pick". I'm not sure what language the word comes from, or what it might mean if it has a meaning other than to designate what it is, but the tool is apparently of Norwegian design.

The fact remains its banned in Europe and thats a start!!

I think we can all use Google,Janey,but not all googled items are facts either are they?
Im sure your aware that a huge % of Canadians are against it too,perhaps you can Google to get the correct %;-))lol

You believe and think what you like, I will believe and think the truth,and obviously a lot of people know the facts because if they didnt this ban would not be happening.




Janey,why have you changed your name? just curious,you are Kathryn(In Canada) arent you?

After decades of this mismanagement and the resulting collapse of the East coast cod industry, the Canadian DFO has declared war on the seals in hopes that massive seal kills will bring back the cod and keep their disgruntled fishermen working. In fact, cod is not a major food source of the harp and hood seal diet. Further, recent evidence suggests that killing seals contributes to bacterial infestation on the ocean floor which leads to hypoxia, a condition in which patches of ocean lose all the dissolved oxygen and are unable to sustain cod or fish or marine life of any kind. However, these facts seem to have been brushed aside by the DFO in their efforts to justify and continue the slaughter.

The Canadian government looks for as many avenues as possible to profit from their annual, government-subsidized slaughter. Currently, Canada exports the following seal products: sealskins (furskins/pelts and leather), seal oil, and seal meat. Unfortunately, due to a revived fashion trend, the demand for seal pelts has sky-rocketed, especially in Europe. Harpseals.org reports that high fashion designers such as Prada and Dolce & Gabbana are selling sealskin apparel. Other companies selling seal fur products include Odette Leblanc Collection, Petit Nordand, and Pajar. Canada sold pelts to 11 countries in 2004 with Norway, Germany, Greenland, and China purchasing the largest quantities. Other buying countries were Finland, Denmark, France, Hong Kong, Greece, South Korea, and Russia.

On the other hand, seal meat sales are not going as well for Canada. Seal meat is generally considered to be inedible and unfit for human consumption. While there is a small market in Newfoundland for the seal flippers (for seal flipper pie), most of the rest of the very small amount of meat found in the slaughtered seal, if utilized at all, would be purchased by pet food and fur farm industries. In 2004, only Taiwan and South Korea purchased seal meat.

Sea Shepherd has a different take on the selling of seal oil. It is Sea Shepherd's opinion that Canada is misleading consumers by marketing seal oil in the health food industry as a "health" alternative. Seal oil contains bioaccumulative PCBs. A known animal carcinogen, PCBs produce health affects such as skin ailments called chloracne, reproductive disorders, liver disease, and other problems. PCBs are stored in body fat and are also dangerously bioaccumulated in the foodchain. Resistant to degradation, PCBs persist for many years in the environment. What Canada markets as benefits of seal oil is the Omega-3 and essential fatty acids - Sea Shepherd recommends these health supplements should be taken in plant form, such as hemp and flaxseed oils. Unfortunately, in 2006, Costco Wholesale Corporation decided to sell seal oil capsules their store in St. John's, Newfoundland. When a Sea Shepherd representative provided the company with information about the sealing industry, and in particular, the killing methods of sealers Costco executives originally promised to pull the capsules but very soon after they changed positions and re-stocked their shelves and continued to sell the product. [For more information read Costco Cannot be Trusted]

Here's a tip, Roxanne.

When you copy and paste stuff you find on the internet, you give a link to the source.

That way, other people can see where the stuff is coming from, and consider the source.

That's what I do. Any reason why you don't?

If I don't know what the source of unverified statements of fact is, I don't give the claims much consideration. But then, being curious, I generally pick something out of the text and google it to see where it came from. I'll get to that.

Meahwhile: You are a curious one, aren't you? And yet you managed to miss the entire (and multithreaded) discussion about my identity? The changed board name that was in no way concealed from anyone, along with the reasons? The main reason being that no one with sense discloses their identity on the internet, and I had never intended to - I was assigned a board name by this system without realizing it, and without realizing that the system then disclosed my full name to anyone who clicked on my board name. I left it like that for a while (with the addition of descriptive elements to avoid the confusion that had arisen with someone else with the same name), because of a desire not to confuse. My personal security concerns overrode that desire eventually, and I made the switch very publicly. Did you really miss it all? Poor you. But now, could I ask why you seem intent on plastering elements of my identity around the internet, when I have obviously chosen not to do that? Just another bit of spiteful behaviour toward someone who doesn't happen to agree with you about something?

No Janey.....I was not retracting that the post card came from the Canadian Government............it was an awfully long time ago and sent to me as a response to a letter that I had sent to the Government asking them to stop the seal hunt.

From some of the things that I've read in the past days regarding the Seals and the fur industry it seems that the pelts are also coming into Gt Britain via the back door.

I remember the description (it would have been the daily mail most likely as that was what I used to buy back in the days when the white seal pups were culled ) I can't find it in archives (yet , am still looking) but my memory is still pretty good and I do recall the report that having been clubbed (agreeed the 'spike' is used for dragging carcass) the seal was skinned whilst still warm ( no doubt had to be?) in front of it's distressed mother.... that is something which most animals killed for meat/ products are not subjected too... maternal care and therefore distress is not confined to humans either , I think that 'touched a nerve' with most who read it... that is one of the reasons why the campaign was so successful in gathering support over here ...I do believe that the report was made by a 'neutral' journalist at the time...but cannot now verify that....

But those of a certain age and temperament will recall the description and perhaps that accounts for the strength of feeling IMO.

"I think we can all use Google,Janey,but not all googled items are facts either are they?"

Duh, eh?

So you proceeded to give a demonstration!

"After decades of this mismanagement and the resulting collapse of the East coast cod industry, the Canadian DFO has declared war on the seals in hopes that massive seal kills will bring back the cod and keep their disgruntled fishermen working."

Good one! Excellent illustration of stuff you find on the internet that isn't quite fact.


"The Canadian government looks for as many avenues as possible to profit from their annual, government-subsidized slaughter. "

Now, I assume that YOU have the proof of government subsidies to the seal hunt. Actually, I don't, because you don't have any proof, because there are no subsidies. But don't let that stop you copying and pasting lying propaganda.

How can the government both subsidize and profit from the seal hunt?

You do realize this doesn't make any sense at all, right?


"Seal meat is generally considered to be inedible and unfit for human consumption."

Really? Maybe by effete Europeans.

Tell it to the Aboriginal peoples and the descendants of European settlers in maritime Canada, who have been eating and enjoying seal meat for generations.


"Seal oil contains bioaccumulative PCBs. "

Huh. You mean like have been found in beef and pork in Ireland?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/
Ireland-Contaminated-Pork-Scare-Spreads-To-Beef-After-PCBs-Found-In-Cattle-Herds/
Article/200812215175652

And of course, we know where the seals are getting their PCBs.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=t43H0Djym5UC&pg=PA1264&lpg=PA1264&dq=%22PCBs%22
+seal&source=bl&ots=5DMUgbZftq&sig=R1hFP4Gfd6IbbUpP-k6q7zTn2cY&hl=en&ei=v_sKSpT_
J5LhtgeJ6YijAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=12

Cod. Yup, cod does have much lower concentrations. There are sure some problematic freshwater fish and seafood, though.


"When a Sea Shepherd representative provided the company with information about the sealing industry, and in particular, the killing methods of sealers Costco executives originally promised to pull the capsules but very soon after they changed positions and re-stocked their shelves and continued to sell the product."

Awwww. A corporation didn't roll over and play dead when the anti-seal hunt gang tried to browbeat it with disinformation and intimidation tactics:

"A month later, Costco has reneged on this promise and has mistakenly decided that the interests of one store in Newfoundland are more important than all of Costco's outlets internationally. They announced on the morning of April 5, 2006, that they will resume selling seal oil capsules made from baby harp seals. ... Costco has decided that to save face in one store in Newfoundland, they are willing to call Sea Shepherd's bluff over an international boycott of all Costco outlets worldwide. It is not a bluff. Sea Shepherd is now officially calling for an international boycott of all international Costco retail outlets."

(that's from your source:
http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-060405-1.html)


"It is Sea Shepherd's opinion that Canada is misleading consumers by marketing seal oil in the health food industry as a "health" alternative."

Well, it seems Sea Shepherd's opinion is a lie. "Canada" does not market anything.


If that's who you've got -- Sea Shepherd ... well, you choose your own bedmates.