General Chat

Hi Ann

Has anyone found Emma Auber on 1841 yet?

I have another mystery to solve. Here are the details:-

My 4xgreat grandparents George & Sarah Coombs had their first son Matthew George Coombs in Holborn, London in 1812, 2 more who died in infancy and my great, great, great grandfather William Thomas Coombs born in Sep 1828 in Soho, London.

I cannot for the life of me find a marriage in London for George and Sarah. I have been there and checked churches that arent on the IGI to no avail.

George was last seen and heard of in March 1830 when William was baptised. He vanished off the face of the earth it seems. Later on it appears that Sarah was known as Sarah Bradford. Matthew Coombs wed in 1835 and 1845. Sarah Bradford was a witness to both weddings, but in July 1835, another witness was a James Bradford.

In the 1841 census Sarah was in Carburton Street, Marylebone, London, a singlewoman, laundress with a 12 year old son William, who would have been the same age and forename as William Coombs. Sarah registered the deaths of Matthew Coombs eldest son who died in infancy and his first wifes death. I think that she was the same Sarah who was once wed to George Coombs.

In the 1841 census, there was a James Bradford living just round the corner from Sarah. He was a labourer and of similar age to Sarah and both not born in London. James had two children Henry and Frances with him. James was a baker at some stage. The mother was Amey.

James Bradford wed Amey in 1825 and he signed his name. The James Bradford who witnessed Matthew Coombs wedding with Sarah put an X, th mark of. Trouble is, I cannot find any other likely James Bradfords in London that would be another candidate for the one who witnessed Matthew Coombs wedding in 1835. I cannot find any James Bradford deaths in the West London area from 1837 to 1841.

James who wed Amey was born in 1792 in Effingham, Surrey, the son of Henry and Susannah Bradford. He didnt have a sister Sarah though. Henry had two known brothers who were having children from 1798 onwards. I am in a bit of a quandry now as I did think the James Bradford living round the corner from Sarah in 1841 was a relation.

I cannot find a marriage for a Sarah Coombs to a Mr Bradford at all on IGI, Pallots and I have even checked at London record offices for unindexed churches. I am sure from the evidence that Sarah Bradford is the one who wed George Coombs but am stuck with this James Bradford thing. Could it be two different James Bradfords or were they another relation besides siblings?

Ben

n

Ann

am sneaking on with towel wrapped round me should be getting ready for family party!!!!

One thing I forgot to say is Phyllis father uses his two names either way.

So the Amos you found in 1881 is actually Phyllis older brother, who also uses either name.!!

The one you found in 1891 as a nurse in Sutton is my Phyllis, as is the Rose in 1881 ( the one you felt was a red herring.) Her dad died just after her birth in 1876.

I do have Phyllis birth cert 1875 states her father is John Amos Dayman and her mother is Emily Taylor. It's their marriage I can't find.

Not located Phyllis or her son Robert in 1901 yet. And yes the Leach neighbours may well be related.


Will read this in more detail when I can, but just wanted to add quick reply.

shelli, That is as much as I can find today. Robert William Dayman still eludes me I'm afraid. as does Phyllis in 1901. Or have we found her? Getting confused now. maybe if you haven't got any further by the time you return from holiday and I return at the end of september you could do a precis of all the information you have and what you still need.

Ann
glos

This is probably a red herring but keeps niggling at me:
1881
Rose Dayman
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Female
Where born: Knockholt, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Shoreham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: Colgates Orchard
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub registration district: Shoreham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Dayman 18
Emily Dayman 49 widow
Margaret Dayman 10
Rose Dayman 6
William Dayman 8


Looks like they could be related.

I think this is Phyllis in 1891

Phylis Rosetta Daymon
[Phyllis Rosetta Dayman]
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Nurse
Gender: Female
Where born: Hatstead, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Sutton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
Town: Sutton
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Epsom
Sub registration district: Carshalton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Amy Boxall 25
Emma Beatrice Cox 17
Ernest Cox 11
George Trevor Cox 14
Kate Cox 42
Katie Cox 12
Violet Gladys Cox 7
William Alfred Cox 48 surgeon medical practitioner
William Hudson Cox 16
Phylis Rosetta Daymon 16 nurse born Halstead
James Fleming 19


Halstead is adjacent to Knockholt.

Do you actually have a birth cert for Phyllis? If so who are her parents? are you sure she was always called Phyllis? Why can't I find her or Robert in 1881????

But this is interesting, living next door:-

William Leach
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rosina
Gender: Male
Where born: Horton, Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Shoreham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: Cottage Dunstall Farm
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Ag Lab

Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub registration district: Shoreham
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Edith M. Leach 1
Herbert E. Leach 3
Rosetta M. Leach 11
Rosina Leach 33
William Leach 34
William T. Leach 8


Relatives of Robert do you think?

Here is the family in 1881 I think.

Amos J. Deyman
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Amelia J.
Gender: Male
Where born: Deptford, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Shoreham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street address: Cottage Dunstall Farm
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Ag Lab

Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub registration district: Shoreham
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James Collins 32
Amelia J. Deyman 24
Amos J. Deyman 26
Clare E. Deyman 2
Fanny E. Deyman 4
Fanny M. Dolley 56 Mother in law
George Dolley 16 brother in law
Richard Dolley 27 brother in law.

so if you don't have them Phylis's Grandparents were ?? Deyman and Clare E Dolley.


Ann
Glos

Marriage too place in Register Office Tonbridge Kent
30/09/1911

Samuel John Vitler
37
Bachelor
General Labourer
No father named.

Phyllis Rosetta Leach ( formerly Dayman spinster) 36
Divorced wife of Robert Leach
Laundress
Father Amos John Dayman dec'd general Labourer.

Both are living in Rams Hill ????? I can't read the bit under Rams hill, presume it'sa Kentish village??? Looks like Havermondin???

Witnesses M Larkin & H? Goad. No idea who these people are.


I have emailed National Archive for an estimate for the copy of Rose's divorce papers.

Please don't think I'm ignoring you but we've got a busy day today and we're off tomorrow ( I hope)But I will try and pop back at some point
Have a lovely holiday, if we don't speak beforehand
xx

shelli,
Can you put all the info on the marriage cert on here please. i.e. date names occupations state (wid etc), witnesses, Fathers names/occupations.

Got to go shopping in a mo but will be back later this morning.

Ann
Glos

Ann

I have the marriage cert for Rose, although I can now confirm she did indeed marry again in 1911, I haven't yet worked out how this will help me with my research LOL Any ideas?

Have written to a Great Aunt in the vain hope she can give up some juicy titbits to help.

Ann I think that maybe they were ordered to the workhouse but when they were told to enter, they backed out as the workhouse was a last resort. Thomas had a 7 shilling army pension and a labourers wage. He had 6 children so I think they never went to any workhouse, but the poor relief document probably wasnt written on to say that.

Ben

Oh, and also, I've known people who were listed with just their initial and surname...pain in the neck when you're searching their full name. Don't know why it was done, one was in London and another was the policeman & his family at a police station in wiltshire.

I have a James Asbury...most definitely James (he's born James, marries as James and dies as James) yet on one of the censuses they call him Thomas. I decided it was just a numpty enumerator and to trust my instinct...there was no Thomas in the family.

Thomas said he was 68 when he was really 65 in 1878. He was born in May 1813 so 65 in Dec 1878 not 68.

Would maybe if I emailed the document to someone would thet help at all as I have it on my computer? I wonder if someone else could decipher it a bit more.

Susan may know more.

Maybe they decided to live on the wages of the daughters. They wouldn't have become tailoresses over night so maybe he was trying it on when he applied for poor relief. Don't think you are ever likely to know Ben.

Well in 1881 theye were just round the corner from their 1878 address. The head was a watchman while two of his daughters were tailoresses.

The poor relief document says that Thomas was a Labourer when they applied for poor relief.

I don't know how far they would be sent back Ben, maybe Susan might if she comes on here later. I imagine that, once they left the workhouse they would be able to return to where they wanted to go.

But, as you say, maybe he got work and didn't go to the workhouse.

Ann

Hi Ann

The father was born in Kemsing Kent and mother in Cuckfield Sussex. Would they have been sent all the way back there then?

They were in Holborn in 1881 census, so they would have been allowed to return once they left would they?

Ben